Support Our Troops

The RN fleet sub that launched tomahawks on Iraq? Was that summit Yanks sold us? Thought it had to be a Trafalgar or Swiftsure? Youve still lost me..you saying it sailed to Gulf and launched without submerging whole trip?

 

No, Canada bought some used subs off the Brits (I believe Victoria Class) They still can not even go under water, sorry for the confusion.

 

Sorry Brad, yep I was confused...My fault too..I should have looked at your profile, I thought I was talking to a Brit..

Yep that sounds about right...Were a good second hand shop....Always sell without a guarantee certificate...

What...you wanted em to go under the water...You never said....

Weve got some fleet subs available if you want em now...If you can wait just a few months till we sort out the Nuclear reactor problem..only one user...these will submerge....guaranteed...Make sure you have a floating crane sail out with them at all times though...

 

Guess everone in Europe is currently rethinking if his military strategy still fits to reality:

Here in Germany there are first smooth discussions on how much we can reallyl rely on the assured U.S. nuclear protection. First tiny little attempts to look for loopholes in the nuclear non-distribution treaty and some more general discussions if Germany need their own force de frappe.

As much as I hate it (and i expect other european countries don't like the idea too much, neither): I think the discussion on rearming Germany with her own nuclear weapons is valid in a world where International security systems aren't workin any more.

Guess the ugly tit-for-tat between Germany and U.S.A. or even within the EC caused a kind of reality check in some people's minds
here.

Cheers,

 

Andy, I think your assumption is indeed correct...

Germany I think will aquire nuclear weapons on the future..Your nation is capable of doing so without any help from others..

I know your people have been in a quandry ever since ww2 on military matters..

But that is as much your allies fault...Nato, including USA and indeed my own country..

We cannot have it all ways...We wanted Germany de-militarised...We wanted them to show us they had learned their lesson...How times change..Suddenly Germany is required to furnish the second biggest army in Afnorth...Arm to protect its own country against Warsaw pact because suddenly we need them..And with the knowledge that any cold war battle would be fought on German territory, rather that than in The Loire Valley or the channel ports of Dover and English south coast..

Destroy German land rather than our own...made sense to us for years...foreward defence doctrine to us...sounded reasonable..tack nukes to be released on German soil if necessary not our own..Homeland defence to you guys though..

Then cold wars over....Balkans and other actions...suddenly reduction in manpower and capabilities means we are looking to Germany to fill out of area gaps...manpower...Germany should pull her weight...hold on...I thought we didnt want that anymore..

Lets critisise Germany for questioning in their democratic houses the out of country deployments they have been led to believe by us would...should...never happen..

No thought by some of the heart wrenching involved by the German citizen in what they had been told, educated for the last 40 years was the wrong thing to do..

Then its the Middle East..and again we take our wrath out not on our supposed enemy but an ally that has served the west well without question for all these years...Suddenly they are to be attacked for stopping...thinking...where have we come from..where are we going..

And the vitoroil...wheres the thanks for protecting Germany for all the cold war years..The protection that would have in fact meant the devestation of German land and people if the cold war ever went hot...Foreward defence...better German towns and land and people than ours...And so to Japan...End your militaristic times...but now Korea and others..we need you Japan..do more...

Germany like other Eruopean nations now must look to its own defence...toghether with others when needed, including Britain and USA..No nose cutting off to spite faces by anyone here..

But Germny has been forced to wake up lately...The language of its allies needs to be toned down..Threats of were leaveing moving eastwards et al...are only short lived..Germany has been forced in last few months to recognise it is a nation with its own views and its own future ahead..Welcome to the real club Germany and bon chance....Yes I know its French..but what the hell..I sitll like France too..And America..We all have a long history of alliance..

And yes...Agree, OBL...If hes alive, hes surely laughing at us and his legacy Damn him to hell.

 

I can't see how a European Army would be workable. I am pretty certain that French/German/British/Italian/Spanish staff officers wouldn't want their troops being commanded by foreign military figures. How would objectives be decided when Europe rarely agrees on anything?

On other matters, I don't know a great deal about the French Air Force, but I do know they haven't received anything near the numbers of the new Rafale fighter that they were supposed to, while the RAF, Luftwaffe, Italian Regia Aeronautica and Spanish Air Force should soon be receiving the new Eurofighter in large quantities.

 

Greenjacket, I agree on it not working but purely due to nationalistic, political reasons, not military..All the nations you mention have indeed worked in a unified command structure for many years within Nato, under other nations commands.

Even without mentioning corps and army groups of cold war days, today the Dutch marine force still trains with British 3cmdo brigade and is an inherent part of that forces structure in strategic roles as long as both govts agree on the fight.

Italian brigade actually makes up one of the British divisions in time of war that if indeed Nato were ever to fight at present as a coherent force, so why would a Euro force be any different from the military view...politcos Ill agree have problems..the military of these nations alredeady do the necessary and command structures within each designated Nato force reflect this.

 

And may I add to that the Dutch/German (or German/Dutch ) Army Corps? A very much integrated force stationed in Germany under rotating Dutch and German command. And may I point out that Holland and Germany are BOTH heading the UN effort in Afganistan...well, I should say Kabul....

And I believe there is a German/French Army corps as well.And then the combined North Sea Flotilla; a naval group made up of British, Belgian, Dutch, Danish, Norwegian and German navy that patrols the North sea.


The military of practically all Nato members states are constantly on manouvres together. However, I think Bosnia has shown that although there will be problems, army units of different nations can work as a somehow integrated part. Especially SF forces. (Dutch commandos apparently worked rather closely together with the SAS in Screbenica, my sources tell me.) I agree that any problems that might arise are purely political. I think the different militaries will welcome to opportunity to train more and operate together.

I do think the British/Dutch marines are the most integrated bi-national units in Europe today. The Dutch marines will be under British command in the situation described by Urgh..... This is a pretty long standing arrangement. And it seems that they (the Dutch marines) are heading out as a stabilization force to the Basra area soon....

 

In fact the Belgian marine - a few minesweepers -are located in Den Helder - the Main Dutch military port for the marine.

 

Really? i didn't know that. I knew they had combined the mine-sweeping operation, but thought that was only when they would go out and actually sweep mines in 'hot' areas. Had no idea they were stationed in Den Helder. I do know that about ten years ago some admirals wanted to merge the Dutch and Belgian navy. More effective, they said.

Wait a minute, are you saying Whole Belgian navy is in Den Helder, Erwin?