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the RPG-7

Discussion in 'Non-World War 2 History' started by Zable Fahr, Apr 12, 2004.

  1. Bolo

    Bolo New Member

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    I read a very interesting AA report about the RPG and what it did to the Russians in Grozny.

    They got their asses kicked.

    The rebels waited for the tanks and APCs to get well into the city and on the streets then they stepped out of hiding onto the roofs. AK-47 gunners protected the rocketeers who took out vehicle after vehicle. It was just a matter of feeding rockets to the gunners and killing the infantry/crews that tried to escape.

    The Russians hate the RPG. :lol:

    I t is one of those things that adopt all of the qualities Russians value.

    Practicality and effectiveness.
     
  2. liang

    liang New Member

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    Talk about what goes around comes around, I am sure the irony is not lost to the Russian soldiers that weapons made in Russia are being used to killed their own. This is not that different from terrorists using Stinger missiles to bring down American aircrafts.
     
  3. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    No, it isn't. And the old Soviet Union made certain that plenty of RPGs were on the market, available to anyone for free or at bargain prices.
     
  4. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    What REALLY pisses me off with RPGs is that every single news report states that RPG means Rocket Propelled Grenade. Wrong
    R = Reaktivni = Rocket-propelled
    P = Protivotankovyi = Anti-tank
    G = Granatomyot = Grenade - launcher
    It's really unfortunate (in this case at least) that the Russian abbreviation is close enough to an English equivalent. News readers, Huh.
    Almost as bad as the ones that state "such and such a person was shot at point blank range with a rifle". They mean extremely close, and have no idea what point blank means.
    Oli
     
  5. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Thanks for that. The first fact was really new to me. The second is just a "normalized" expression I guess, like the modern American "drawing flak". I have heard though that point-blank range means the range at which a gun will hit its target with 0 degrees elevation, is that correct?
     
  6. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    unlikly as you wouldn't aim and fire pistols and rifles that way therefore all their ranges are point blank.

    FNG
     
  7. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Point blank, apparently the correct military definition (try telling this down the pub :lol: ) =
    The range at which the maximum ordinate of the projectile's vertical trajectory does not exceed target height. Whew.
    So roughly (very roughly) if your fire height (ie gun mount) is 2 meters above the ground, and the round drops at 10 metres per second squared (gravity) then the round will hit the ground after 0.63 seconds.
    If your muzzle velocity is 800 m/sec (typical rifle) then (ignoring velocity drop due to drag) point blank is 800 * 0.63 = 506 metres,
    for a pistol ~300 m/sec its ~190 metres (yeah right!!),
    but with modern tanks at about 1750 m/s then you're looking at 1100 metres, which is why tankies prefer high muzzle velocities, the danger space is huge. Just point the gun and :kill:
    Oli
     
  8. Jeffrey phpbb3

    Jeffrey phpbb3 New Member

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    Most people (including you I guess, no offence :wink: ) ) that don't know much about tanks only KNOW about the deplted uranium armour and think it is the very best of the best and superior to any other tank armour, this is BS, al modern Western tank armour is of about the same strenght as the Abrams armour, the Abrams is nothing ''special''


    ''It does has to do with the armour penetration capability of the rpg-7.
    With a rpg-7 you can punch a hole in a abrams (up to 600mm). A frontal attack could cause a kill.''



    Anton, you forgot to mention that this is 600mm of homogeneus steel(homogeen staal) that it can penetrate, te Abrams armour is not reactive, it has a mixture of different materials like depleted uranium, also, the frontal and side armor is put in an angle...unfortunatly I forgot the sats about the armour thickness, but if I remember correctly its frotnal armour is comparable with about 1000mm of homogeneus steel, so not ay type of RPG can penetrate the frontal and side armour...
     
  9. Jeffrey phpbb3

    Jeffrey phpbb3 New Member

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    The battles that are fought in Iraq aren't more than 100 m apart, so as you said, it is only hard to aim over 100 m, so they could easily take out an Abrams from behind or above if they are between 100 m wich they mostly are... :wink:
     
  10. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Don't forget, the RPG and similar weapons are hollow charge. Closer firing range will mean a better chance of a hit, but penetration does not increase, regardless of how close you are, it's a fixed value.
    In a way tyou have to admire anybody with the guts to sneak up on a 60 tonne AFV with an RPG. If the crew see you it's end of story.
    The RPG-7 is very out of date, but there's thousands (millions) of them, easy to get hold of.
    Oli
     
  11. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Isn't this sort of what I said?
    ...just checking. :wink:
     
  12. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Absolutely, but FNG denied it, so I gave the military definition and scientific explanation. Can never have too much information....
    Oli
     
  13. smeghead phpbb3

    smeghead phpbb3 New Member

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    The Chechens did not use the RPG-7 against the Russians in Grozny. The Russians did get their butts kicked though, but this was thanks to the Chechens having access to more modern anti-tank weapons, the RPG-18 and the RPG-29, two very different weapons to the RPG-7...
    http://www.milparade.com/catalog/pdf/103.pdf
    In some tests the Russians did, an RPG-7 and an RPG-29 were fired five times each at a T-80U and five times at a T-80U with ERA. the RPG-7 penetrated the stripped T-80U once. the RPG-29 penetrated the stripped T-80U all five times, and the ERA equipped T-80U three times. Still it flatters the 60's era RPG 7 that it can (after a few shots) penetrate a modern T-80U or M1A1. I'm just thankful that the insurgents havent got ny RPG-29's :-?
     
  14. TISO

    TISO New Member

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    According to one of the posters on some other forum, incresing number of RPG-29's are appearing in Iraq.
     
  15. Anton phpbb3

    Anton phpbb3 New Member

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    You are right Jeffrey.

    The standard pg-7 grenade can only penetrate 600mm of homogeneus steel.
    What I had in mind were the newer rpg-7 rounds, rounds combining different penetrating methods like double warhead, thermobaric bomb, combining hesh and hollow charge and all the other new rounds.

    In iraq the resistance use mostly the standard pg-7 round so it is not likely that they can penetrate an abrams frontal.
    However the abrams is still vulnerable in the track and the motor compartment.

    when you see pictures of resistance fighters using the rpg you might see that they tape the fuze, this is because the piezo-electric fuze shorts out easily when it hits a wire. This is also why many us vehicles have wires all around the vehicle. (originally a chinese invention the rpg7 fence)
    if the fuze shorts out the warhead will still detonate because of the self element but the warhead will be by then broken up.

    Kind regards,
     
  16. Cdat88

    Cdat88 recruit

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    Well, I can state that an RPG-7 cannot penetrate the frontal turret or hull armor of an M1A1(DU) model. IT does "puddle" the surface though.
     
  17. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    what type of RPG7?

    FNG
     
  18. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf New Member

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    If your 600mm is an accurate claim for ordinary armour I can't believe it would apply to chobham. In fact, such claims re chobham can only be spurious as its capabilities are classified and therefore not in the public domain.
     
  19. Anton phpbb3

    Anton phpbb3 New Member

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    Like Jeffrey said this penetration counts only for normal steel and not chobham. I know that chobham is a special designed sort of protection with layers of different hardened steel, keramic and plastic materials.

    The standard at grenade is useless in the frontal attack, with a newer version you could have some succes.

    Kind regards,
     
  20. Cdat88

    Cdat88 recruit

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    FNG, not sure. Whatever the Iraqi army circa 1991 would have had, though if it is like most of the equipment, several models would have been in stock.
     

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