The WW2 Sniper !!

I'd say!

KBO: this is exactly what I meant. The sniper's action is not entirely defensive, it's more ambush-like and therefore I didn't qualify it as a defensive ambush but rahter as a weapon of area denial.

 

Or maby abit of both

 

Okay, now we are making too much out of nothing. Area-denial? Ambush vs sniping to me are both defensive postures, when was the last time you hear an attacking/advancing amry ambushing or sniping at enemies hidden infront of them. Although you can make the point that both can be consider a passive form or attacking as you are initiating the action first, but how does that differ from active form of defending. Great, now I have managed to confuse myself.
Area-denial, now is that a preemptive or reactive tactic?

 

Ok, lets define sniping!

Generally, sniping is undertaken as a harassment tactic in 2 situations:

1) when the front line is more-or-less static (even for short periods of time), both sides will often snipe at their enemy to prevent him becoming settled and rested. And to lower morale & hopefully kill off some officers.

2) when retreating, armies will often leave snipers behind, as they can slow advancing infantry. Check Danyel's post on the 'Steel Panthers' game for how effective (and annoying!) this is. One sniper can pin down (or at least keep occupied) relatively large numbers of enemy infantry. A great 'delaying' tactic, and one that again lowers enemy moral and hopefully removes their officers.

So it is harassment, not area denial...
Area denial is laying minefields, barbed wire, mgs, and/or artillery on an area.

Now go on and trash my statement!

 

No, I think that's about the best definition I've heard of the role of the sniper! (Although I'd like to bet the individuals on the recieving end felt somewhat more than Harrassed!)

The only thing I would add is that the role of the sniper is anti-personel, not anti-material.

 

I'll agree with that definition, especially with the sidenote that sniping is done to kill men, and more specifically officers. I knew there had to be some way to exclude sharpshooting with artillery from sniping with rifles.

Anyone who has ever played a WW2 or similar wargame will know that it is impossible to wipe out any enemy force by sniping. The method is effective but way too slow to actually hurt the integrity of the enemy unit before they are upon you. Therefore snipers always try to hit officers as the only way in which their tactic can have the desired effect.

 

Actually I understood snipers made a priority of Officers (Remove the ability to command and control), signallers/radiomen (Remove the ability to communicate) and Medics (Remove the ability to treat casualties).

 

Basically that is the same thing. You cannot tell GI Joe to aim only for the officers, radiomen and medics when they are assaulting his position. Because he is usually not alone, his unit will neutralize the enemy force by pinning it down entirely. A sniper cannot accomplsih this on his own and will therefore, with his high accuracy, take down those persons that make a unit run without actually firing at the soldiers since there are obviously too many of them for a lonely rifleman to hurt a unit that way.

 

A little Authentic story for you guy's:


On the twenty-sixth of June SS Pionier Pelzmann of the 12. SS Panzerpionierbataillon's fourth company is positioned under a small tree, he is a forward observer. He has dug a hole and then placed a big piece of armour from a Pzkpfw. IV and grass on top of it. The only opening is a small observation slit facing the enemy. It's impossible to discover him. From the observation slit he has shot a large number of British soldiers when he finally runs out of ammunition. He steps out of his dugout, grabs his sniper rifle and smashes it to the tree. He throws the rifle away and shout "So, I don't have any ammo left, finished enough of you- you can shot me now!". A big red haired Englishman then steps forward, grab Pelzmann's arm, places his revolver against his head and fires. Pelzmann falls dead to the ground. Oberscharführer Ernst Behrens, who together with a handful of other prisoners have witnessed the incident, is told to gather all the dead soldiers and concentrate them at a certain spot. When he comes to Pelzmann he counts about thirty dead Englishmen in front of Pelzmann's dugout.

And read this one as well:

The American war correspondent Ernie Pyle reported from Normandy: "There are snipers everywhere. There are snipers in trees, in buildings, in piles of wreckage, in the grass. But mainly they are in the high, bushy hedgerows that form the fences of all the Norman fields and line every roadside and lane."



It was not only among the hedges and trees that the snipers hid. At crossroads important targets such as traffic police and officers, the crossroads were although quite often shelled therefore the snipers positioned themselves a bit away from these. Bridges were also ideal spots, here a sniper could easily create panic and havoc with only a few shots. Lone houses were an obvious place and therefore the snipers placed themselves a short distance from these. Sometimes the snipers hid among wreckage but this meant that they preferably had to change position often. Another ideal spot for the sniper team were the fields with crops, here it was difficult to find out the exact position of the sniper and the dense crop provided good concealment. Often the snipers tried to position themselves high. Water towers, windmills and church towers were perfect positions but also obvious and thus exposed to artillery fire. Despite the obviousness snipers often hid up in these places. The more experienced snipers usually positioned themselves in other, less evident, tall buildings. Sergeant Arthur Colligan served in the 2. American Armored Division, he remembers the church towers with horror: "They were used by German snipers to shoot at us."



A captured German sniper was interrogated and asked how he could tell officers, wearing normal uniforms, carrying rifle and not wearing any rank badges, apart from regular soldiers. He simply stated "We shoot the men who have moustaches", by experience they had learnt that moustaches were common among officers and higher nco's.



The German snipers always tried to hit important targets such as officers, nco's, observers, singalists, gun crews, orderlies, vehicle commanders etc. As opposed to the MG 42 the sniper didn't reveal his position as easily when he opened fire. A good sniper could pin down a whole infantry platoon. When he fired his first shot the whole platoon froze and he was then given time to change position. A typical mistake among green troops when fired upon by a sniper was to hug the ground and not return the fire. A platoon commander in the 9. Infantry division remembers: "One of the fatal mistakes made by infantry replacements is to hit the ground and freeze when fired upon. Once I ordered a squad to advance from one hedgerow to another. During the movement one man was shot by a sniper firing one round. The entire squad hit the ground and they were picked off, one by one, by the same sniper."

 

Interesting to note how German Snipers distinguished Nco's from the ordinary G.I's....

Also one Sniper could effectively take out whole platoons with ease, he would simply pick off the man in charge, and then take out the rest one by one, because the allies almost allways made the same mistake whenever being shot at by sniper's "They hit the dirt" !!

KBO

 

Oh for the love of.. a whole Platoon, KBO?

 

Yeah it has happened before.. You should hear what Finnish snipers were capable of during the struggle with the Soviets

You know a infantry platoon consists of aprox 35 men right ??

KBO

 

Curious to how this drops from "could effectively" to "It can happen."

 

"A platoon commander in the 9. Infantry division remembers: "One of the fatal mistakes made by infantry replacements is to hit the ground and freeze when fired upon. Once I ordered a squad to advance from one hedgerow to another. During the movement one man was shot by a sniper firing one round. The entire squad hit the ground and they were picked off, one by one, by the same sniper.""

This implies neither that this was a regular occurance, nor that whole platoons were routinely wiped out. Note the commander states "infantry replacements" i.e. green, unseasoned troops, not every allied platoon, he also refers to a squad being wiped out, not an entire platoon!

"The American war correspondent Ernie Pyle reported from Normandy: "There are snipers everywhere. There are snipers in trees, in buildings, in piles of wreckage, in the grass. But mainly they are in the high, bushy hedgerows that form the fences of all the Norman fields and line every roadside and lane." "

Important thing here, to me at any rate, is that this is from a war correspondent, not a soldier and let's face it if I was in his position I'd imagine that every stray bullet or shot that came in my direction was a deliberate attempt by a sniper to assassinate me!

Besides if this were true, where would the Germans have got the hundreds upon hundreds of snipers they would have needed to get this degree of cover from (Considering each and every sniper was picked purely on skill and ability)?

 

Hmmm...
I'd say that in theory, given the right conditions and an appropriately inexperienced enemy, it potentially maybe could happen.

However I do remain a touch sceptical...

 

I wasnt using that as an example, but intire platoons did sometimes get wiped out by a single sniper or a sniper team wich still only consists of one sniper... just like pelzmanns story... 30 dead british soldiers, wich is very close to one whole platoon..

Well those are probably stories he got from G.I's in the field, and he doesnt say hundreds, but he states they are everywhere, however this is offcourse overestimating abit..

Again he didnt say hundreds, but sometimes it would feel like there were hundreds of them, because the men seemed to drop dead all around you when one was around.

 

It has happened frequently during WW2 Danyel...

KBO

 

Okay, KBO, just as a point of order...

Why are certain soldiers of WW2 remembered in books and on websites while the majority is only remembered in mass ceremonies? Why are some called Aces while others are just soldiers? Why do writers of books pick out certain events they want to write about?

Because they were exclusive. Not the regular, daily events. They were special, trained, talented, and often alone in both fields. They are NOT the norm of any army.

The case of sniper Pelzmann is just such a case; I'm fairly confident that one sniper taking out 30 men at close range is something that did not happen often, and in fact may never have happened apart from this single event.

 

Oh im not at all saying snipers were a norm in any army "Other than the Soviet offcourse" not at all....

Oh i think youd wanna ask Mathias H. about that... as that actually happened very frequently on the Eastern front.... Im not sure how much it happened on the Western front, but this certainly wasnt the only incident....! Btw it didnt happen at close range, he just says the body's were located in front of the hideout, wich could mean that some of them were shot from pretty long range..

KBO

 

Well let me try to analyse some things about sniping from my opinion:

Sniper teams were known to kill a number of troops when acting in offensive patrolling, but to say that one sniper killed 30+ troops only a few yards from him is definatly not normal. It is in large part an exception. Any smart soldier would just have lobbed in a grenade into his hole and the sniper would be forced to go out.

In the case of sniping at long range, it is more effective to use many snipers working as a team to effectivly pin some troops but one sniper killing a whole platoon by himself seems of the mark, especially when its in Normandy with plenty of places to hide. Bh the time the snuiper would have fired twenty rounds the troops would already be around his position.

And theres is one thing I have to mention here. Not every shot is a kill, no matter how good you are. It is very hard to snipe at a moving target and not every one of your shots will count.