This is especially for those who oppose the Death Penalty. Would you still oppose it after reading t

I do know though...that if we had it...There would be lots of folk out of jail now freed of charges that in previous years would have hung.

They provide the anti hanging cause with powerful ammunition over here and right too.

My own view is and remains personal, I'm against unless affected. Its cheap and easy but I can do that as we will never see the death penalty here in my life time no matter what we say.

 

Hi Urg, there are not as many "Innocents" there as you may think. he only way I can suggest that might be benefitial in you finding out what is going on is to actually go work for the Prison system here and see what I saw. Eventually you will change you mind.

 

Well over here there were the Birmingham 6, the Guiford 4, and a list as long as your arm that have been put away for murder which used to be a hanging offence that have since been aquitted in retrials....note I said retrials and not appeals....Years later.

By our old system they would have swung from the gallows long since.

I dont of course know about the American system. I can only comment on our own over here. I state again, Im against hanging, except if anyone in my family is murdered. Then my views will I know differ.

 

Here's one or two from this side of the pond Carl. I offer nothing more than the fact that they were all released and previous charges binned.

They would have swung from the gallows in previous times.



London - A British man wrongly convicted for the murder of a barmaid in 1982 was freed from jail after 27 years Wednesday when the Appeal Court in London quashed the verdict on the basis of advanced DNA evidence. In what experts said was the most serious case of miscarriage of justice in British legal history, Sean Hodgson, now 57, was sentenced to life for the murder of the then 22-year-old woman in Southampton, southern England.





The Stephen Downing case resulted in his conviction for the murder of Wendy Sewell in a Bakewell churchyard in 1973. The 17-year-old had a reading age of 11 and worked at the cemetery as a gardener. The police made him sign a confession that he was unable to read. The case gained international notoriety as the "Bakewell Tart" murder. After spending 27 years in prison, Stephen Downing was released on bail in February 2001, pending the result of an appeal. His conviction was finally overturned in January 2002.

In 1974 Judith Ward was convicted of murder of several people caused by a number of IRA bombings 1973. She was finally released in 1992.

The Birmingham Six were fraudulently convicted in 1975 of planting two bombs in pubs in Birmingham in 1974 which killed 21 people and injured 182. They were finally released in 1991.

The Guildford Four and Maguire Seven were wrongly convicted in 1974 and 1976 respectively of planting bombs in various pubs in Guildford and Woolwich. Their convictions were quashed in 1989 and 1991. On February 9, 2005, British Prime Minister Tony Blair issued a public apology to the Maguire Seven and the Guildford Four for the miscarriages of justice they had suffered."

Stefan Kiszko was convicted in 1976 for the rape and murder of an 11-year old Lesley Molseed in 1975. He spent 16 years in prison before he was released in 1992, after a long campaign by his mother. He died of a heart attack the following year at the age of 41. His mother died a few months later. In 2007, Ronald Castree, of Shaw, near Oldham, was found to have the same DNA as Lesley's attacker and was convicted at Bradford Crown Court.

The Bridgewater Four were convicted in 1979 of murdering Carl Bridgewater, a 13-year-old paper boy who was shot on his round when he disturbed robbers at a farm in Staffordshire. Patrick Molloy died in jail in 1981. The remaining three were released in 1997 after their convictions were overturned.

Sally Clark was convicted in 1996 of the murder of her two small sons Christopher and Harry, and spent 3 years in jail, finally being released in 2003 on appeal. The convictions were based solely on the analysis of the deaths by the Home Office Pathologist Alan Williams, who failed to disclose relevant information about the deaths, and backed up by the paediatric professor Sir Roy Meadow, whose opinion was pivotal in several other child death
Sally Clark became an alcoholic as a result of her ordeal and died of alcohol poisoning in 2006.

Donna Anthony, 25 at the time, was wrongly jailed in 1998 for the death of her 11 month old son, and finally released in 2005,

The Gurnos Three, also known as the Merthyr Tydfil Arson Case (Annette Hewins, Donna Clarke and Denise Sullivan). Wrongly convicted of the arson attack on the home of Diane Jones, aged 21, in October 1995. Someone had torn away part of the covering of her front door and poured in petrol to start the fire. The fire spread so rapidly that Ms Jones and her two daughters, Shauna, aged two and Sarah-Jane, aged 13 months, were all killed. The convictions of Ms Hewins and Ms Clarke were quashed at the Court of Appeal in February 1998 and a retrial ordered in the case of Ms Clarke.

Paul Blackburn was convicted in 1978 when aged 15 of the attempted murder of a 9-year old boy, and spent more than 25 years in 18 different prisons, during which time he maintained his innocence. He said he had never considered saying he was guilty to secure an earlier release because it was a matter of "integrity". He was finally released in May 2005 when the Court of Appeal ruled his trial was unfair and his conviction 'unsafe'.


The Cardiff Newsagent Three, Michael O'Brien (of the Cardiff Newsagent Three), Darren Hall and Ellis Sherwood, were wrongly convicted for the murder of a newsagent, Phillip Saunders. On October 12, 1987 Mr Saunders, 52, was battered with a spade outside his Cardiff home. The day's takings from his kiosk had been stolen, and five days later he died of his injuries. The three men spent 11 years in jail before the Court of Appeal quashed the conviction in 1999. The three have since been paid six figure compensation, but South Wales Police had still not apologised or admitted liability for malicious prosecution or misfeasance.

Andrew Adams, wrongly convicted of the murder of a retired teacher. His conviction was finally quashed on January 12, 2007, after spending 14 years in jail.

Barry George was cleared on August 1, 2008 of murdering Jill Dando after a retrial in which police were unable to rely on discredited forensic evidence.

Kenny Richey, a UK-US dual citizen, spent 21 years on Death Row in the US after being convicted of starting a fire that killed 2-year-old Cynthia Collins. His conviction was eventually thrown out. Richey agreed to a plea bargain in which he agreed to plead 'no contest' to involuntary manslaughter, child endangering and breaking and entering. In exchange for this plea, the prosecution dropped the charges of arson and murder. Part of the agreement was that Richey leave the U.S. immediately.[10]

Colin Stagg falsely imprisoned for the Rachel Nickell murder case on Wimbledon Common, London in 1992, but cleared in 1994.The case was thrown out on the grounds that police had used a "honey trap" plot in a bid to encourage him to confess.

On November 28, 2007, Robert Napper, a convicted rapist and serial killer, was charged with her murder on the basis of new DNA evidence, and convicted on December 18, 2008. Stagg was subsequently awarded £706,000 compensation, and claims the false conviction ruined 14 years of his life, as he became unemployable and shunned.

Sean Hodgson, also known as Robert Graham Hodgson, was convicted in 1982 of murder following various confessions to police, although he pleaded not guilty at his trial. His defence said he was a pathological liar and the confessions were untrue. He was freed on March 18, 2009 by the Court of Appeal as a result of advances in DNA analysis which established his innocence.

Winston Silcott was jailed for the murder of PC Keith Blakelock during the 1985 Broadwater Farm Riot in Tottenham. He was cleared in 1991, whe n new evidence came to light.

Suzanne Holdsworth served three years of a life sentence after she was convicted in 2005 of murdering Kyle Fisher, a neighbour's two-year-old son, by repeatedly banging his head against a wooden bannister at her home in Hartlepool. She was found not guilty in 2008 by the Court of Appeal after new medical evidence suggested Kyle may have died from an epileptic seizure.

 

Thanks for providing these sources Urgh, whatever our respective opinions are, I appreciate and respect when people utter an opinion backed with sources.

 

Is it any less a miscarriage of justice for an innocent man to spend 27 years in prison, than to execute an innocent man? No one can give those 27 years back to him. No one will even try to compensate him for those 27 years. At best, he will get a meaningless apology from the state, if he's lucky.

If the death penalty is abolished, the extremely high level of care taken to ensure innocent people are not unjustly convicted of a crime, will inevitably be relaxed. This will result in more people being falsely convicted and spending time in prison. The high cost of prosecuting capital crimes and executing condemned prisoners will be avoided, but the state will incarcerate more innocent people.

 

Absolutely not. Quite the opposite. I did voluntary work in prisons for two years. That actually made my conviction much stronger, since it made me appreciate the human lives society finds despicable and how God's grace acts preferably in there, not in dust-free temples...

Indeed, Urqh. That is why I believe Justice tribunals exist in civilised society, because revenge, hatred and prejudice cannot be a legal argument. No wonder why taking the law in our own hands is illegal most of the times.

 

An unacceptable argument in my view, and the reason I oppose the death penalty even if some scumbags deserve it.

 

Blimey Redcoat that sounds like I agree with it, I certainly don't one mistake means one INNOCENT persons life. That is not acceptable.

 

I get your meaning DA, and no its no less a miscarriage of justice, but with or without the meaningless apology at best, I would state that even so...he is far luckier to be alive than hung. But only he could tell us if that is so. I would like to think if it was me, I'd much prefer to still be alive and eventually free, with our without an apology.

The cases I highlight also go someway to prove your second paragraph and point. Care taken does seem to have been relaxed.

But they are still alive and at the end of their nightmare, free. How its affected them mentally or physically is anyones guess, but alive they are and not dead.

 

Agree 100 percent. Well I do now...I just don't know if I would if something became so horrific and personal. I would like to think I would leave it to the criminal justice system, even if my faith in that system is at an all time low these days. But I also reiterate that my first feelings would I think be revenge. It wouldnt be so much a case of demanding the death penalty for my own personal case...It would be more you better get there before I do. Hot air? Who knows. I still don't, and hope never to be tested. I'm pretty human.

 

Hi Urgh, im not saying that that isn't a sad statistic in that there are innocents wrongfully in prison-hoever, my question is this: Would you stand by and do absolutely nothing if armed intruders kicked in your front door-and then attacked you Wife and Kids? After that, when they are cought-bearing in mind this is one of the few What Ifs im involved in--what if they killed your wife and kids doing other things in front of you-and you survived? I really do not think you would no longer be against the death penalty.

I have known quite a few who were-that is until they witnessed first hand-thouse who were attackd-being friends or family members-or that of experiancing at whay kind of monsters those offenders are-while working for the State. Like I mentioned before-I too used to oppose the death paenalty-but after having personal experiances along with those at work--my mind was changed.

Take care and best regards-C.

 

I dont think you've read me properly Carl....that is exactly what I do say...I would want revenge if done to my own..I would want death penalty if they caught them, but I would be aiming to catch em myself firstly.

I admit to being hypocritical on this...I cant do much else but say that.

 

you're funny. yes,i was trying to sate that in my earlier posts but i seeed to be rubling on all the time lol.
i agree.

 

Hi Urgh, sorry about that, I was in a rush to post because I had to leave to go across town and celebrate my olders Brothers Birthday.

Cheers ;-))

 

Here are two just happened as of yesterday--cases in point that I must point out.

1) A man who was driving while under the influence of Alcohol (later proven to be at least twice over the legal limit) was responsible for the deaths of five very young children--just yesterday. He will be charged with five counts of vehicular manslaughter. I do not believe this is a case to place a person on death row. However, the next case I will present--I firmly do believe that that person should get the death penalty.

2) Man arrested yesterday afternoon after trying to carjack a man who was in his car at a gas station. This turd killed the man just to get the fancy rims off his car. This turd showed absolutely zero remorse. I do support the death penalty in this case.

I am wondering if evryone has forgotten somethinf that IS written in the Holy Bible. "An Eye For An Eye." As I do fully believe in the writings of the Holy Bible-I also believe in that Biblical Law. I KNOW that someone here will try to shoot that to pieces-which is fine and I respect their decision to do so but, like I say, I would rather follow the teachings of the Holy Bible to that of modern mans opinions of what's written in the Bible who also like to somehow justify in trying to tear those teachings to shreads.

 

Oh, Carl, come on! That is not an argument... You're a Christian, not a Jew from the first milenium b.C. You must read Leviticus through the Gospels, if you want to enlighten it! An eye for an eye, yes, an so does stoning for adultery... How does Christ interprets that part of Leviticus, remember? How does He interprets the eye-for-an-eye verse in the sermon of the mountain? How does he react to the sincere cry of the hedious thief (who got the death penalty for his crime) besides him?

 

Was it the old Testament or new, I suppose I'm answering my own question here...A good catholic boy but long since given up the alter boy uniform....Jesus said the bit about a rich man getting into heaven...? So must be new testament....So my faith is restored now I know none of the flipping bankers is heading that way.

That will teach the buggers.

If we are going to live our lives by the good book, then we cant blame the other religions for doing the same....

Saying that, I'm a christian and revere Jesus. But in my head...thats where my releationship lives with God, not in any book.

 

Fried, all I can say is that I aint buying what your selling ;-))