Tiger losses in Normandy.At last!

The book "Caen the Anvil of Victory" agrees with these findings, as the Allies had planned their invaision.

 

Quote:

"Admitting that I was involved as the map guy, there is a recent book out analyzing the Heavy Tank Battalions as far as doctrine, use, and effectiveness. It's entitled Sledgehammer, by Maj. Chris Wilbeck, published by The Aberjona Press.

I've read it, and it's pretty informative"

Hi Tom. Didn't know you were over here.
Anyway this post was bumped up because I believe we are about to get very 'excited' about the initial kill claims for the Tiger.
I forsee a bumpy ride ahead!

Have not really read Wilbeck properly yet but note he says perhaps 7 '503' Tigers were lost in the 18/7/44 air raids. He seems reasonable!

 

I wouldn't want to disappoint you Lyndon. Nice post. Where did you get the information? Do you have anything that shows their losses just getting to the battlefield?

:smok:

 

Greg,

Various sources. I cross referenced as much as I could. The major works were Wolfgang Schneider's Tigers In Combat volumes 1 and 2 and Combat History of Schwere Panzer Abteilung 503 by Dr Franz-Willhelm Lochmann, Alfred Rubbel, Richard von Rosen plus other unit histories and single sources on SS units. Too many to mention here.

I also pointed out that if there were any mistakes or I've miswrote or overlooked something (it was pretty exhausting work) then I'm happy to be pointed in the right direction.

 

There's one flaw in found in this list, and that is there were actually only 3 Tigers around Gaumesnil, and they were destroyed by "A" Squadron of Northamptonshire Yeomanry, so how could 5 be destroyed when there were only 3 ?????

Best regards, KBO

 

Well there are photos of 4 still on the field the next day and 1 further to the North.
The one in Quesnay was photographed as well.
Schneider is a good primer but not an exhaustive reference.
His prejudice shows in his remark about flank shots.

 

Well "A" squadron reported that 3 Tiger,s had been knocked out by thier firefly's not 5....

Regards, KBO

 

Fog of war!

 

See, there's not even agreement here by people who are pointing out the mistakes I asked for hehe. :lol:

Any other mistakes are welcome. Seriously. I mean that.:smok:

 

If you have those pictures then plz show them...

Regards, KBO

 

The one 'further north' and 214 from Quesnay.
The other 4 are shown in a photo taken by a recce aircraft still in situ on the field and there are 2 very well known close ups of '007' and '314'.
Didier Lodieu has a new book out on the Polish Armoured Division in Normandy ( in French I am afraid) has a previously unseen photo of '314' and I have a photo of '009' that I am unable to reveal-just yet!

 

Quote:

"18th July - 13 Tigers and King Tigers ko'd, mainly by air action and bombing which proceeded Operation Goodwood, and a few by enemy armour. No further Tigers were destroyed exclusively to enemy action after this date in the actual Normandy area"

Well in this thread you can see that at least one TII was hit (10 times) and destroyed by enemy action. Just an example I can post , not the only one.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?f ... 1080428001

Strangely Schneider says SS101 lost TII's at Sailly on 28/8/44.
This would not be Schneiders first mistake either. Notice the entry for 19/8/44 for SS101 (page 260) is duplicated for SS 102, 19/8/44 (page 332). It seems Schneider mistook the correct location of St. Lambert to make it St. Albert in the SS 102 entry.

 

Thanks M kenny

Regards, KBO

 

Remember that Debits and Credits must be in balance, or you are not accounting the number of tanks and their losses properly. Mistakes do happen.

 

Tiger tanks

concerning the extra production of Tiger tanks- Just what would they have run on if the larger numbers were made.Look at the fuel production rates from 1943 onwards and you can see the disaster looming.aviation fuel supplies shot to hell land transport the same in the end they were semimobile artillery

 

Re: Tiger tanks

That's what I kept saying. It's really useless to discuss what would have happened if there were so many more Tigers; they couldn't have been used! There were no more experienced crews, no more fuel, and it was already hard to supply all existing units with ammunition. If someone would then suggest that the extra Tigers would come in the place of other tank units and take up their crews, ammo and fuel, then I say the medium tank really has a function in battle too. Also, most German tank crews by the end of the war were not as elite as the Tiger batallions, so most Tigers would just have been wasted. They might better have been PanzerIVs.

 

At the end of the war, the Tigers were too manned by inexperienced crews.

Christian

 

When I'm talking about Germany I usually don't even take march-april-may 1945 into account. By then they weren't capable of anything, none of their units was worth much. Maybe they achieved some local success in the East but the overall situation was terrible.

 

Tigers were manned by inexperienced crews prior to that...