US 37th Armored Regiment at Arracourt. "The Battle of the Tanks"

And some think the German military was the BEST in history LOL.

 

The artillery support of the the two brigades is lame. Ten medium howitzers in the 113 and some 15cm infantry support guns. Only the inf support guns in the 111. A Combat Command of the 4th Armored would have had priority of fires from a 18 howitzer battalion, and could call on all 36 105mm howitzer of the divsion when needed.

 

No one can claim that he made real logical decisions alot LOL.

 

And even those are attached, not organic !

 

Well I guess they didn't really need them if "the shermans 75mm guns could hit a panzer but 5 or more shermans were needed to destroy 1 panzer" LOL.

 

Does anyone have any info on the wonder "Panzers"? LOL

 

If I may, I would like to offer some corrections/clarifications to your post.

The 4th Armored Division was a light armored division, and had no regiments following the reorganization of armored divisions in the early fall of 1943.

Lt. Col. Abrams commanded the 37th Tank Battalion during the time frame referred to in your post. He never at anytime in his career commanded the 37th Armored Regiment. As a colonel he was given command of the division’s Combat Command B.

Ingemar

 

The 4th A.D. had some 76mm M4 medium tanks, although they were in the minority.

 

Like all US armored divisions, the 4th had 54 105mm howitzers (M7) in three AFA battalions. Above that, division artillery could call for reinforcing fires from the battalions of nearby divisions, as well as those of corps artillery.

 

Correct. The 37th Armored Regiment became the 37th Tank Battalion after it was streamlined. It carried the same lineage.


"The Texas summer passed. The men saw how their two years together had prepared them physically and professionally when they compared training and proficiency test results with other units. In September 1943, during a ten day period, the 37th was streamlined to the shape in which it would face the enemy. The 37th Armored regiment, as such was no more. First Battalion, Second Battalion and Regimental headquarters became the 37th Tank Battalion, composed of three medium tank companies (A, B & C), one light tank company (D) and a Headquarters Company. From this point on we will concern ourselves with only those who trained and fought with the 37th proper, for other histories have been written of the Third Battalion and the Reconnaissance Troop after they became the 706th Tank Battalion and 25th Cavalry Squadron respectively. The 37th Tank Battalion was now, along with the 35th and 8th, the nucleus of the "light" armored division. On 15 November 1943, Major General Wood announced to the 4th Armored Division that they would go overseas. On 11 December 1943, the 37th moved northeastward by train, unloading at Camp Myles Standish, Massachusetts, from which the main body sailed on 29 December 1943. Eleven days later they were training again in England."

2nd Battalion, 37th Armored Regiment

 

Your source is a little mistaken and misleading regarding the creation of the 25th Cavalry Squadron. The 25th Cavalry Squadron was created from the division's 84th Reconnaissance Battalion during the September 1943 reorganization from heavy to light armored division. These heavy reconnaissance battalions actually had to shed excess soldiers off to other units, while absorbing additional reconnaissance troops. Thus, the troop of the 37th Armored Regiment may have been moved to the 25th Cavalry, but it most certainly did not "form" the squadron.

I must respectfully admit being a little disappointed that you chose not to acknowledge the rather basic errors of your original post. In that post you included some basic errors on a significant series of engagements. Allowed to stand these errors would have left the uninformed reader with a misconception of the facts. Having been made aware of these errors, a little discussion (or even mention) of how they came about would have been appreciated.

Now back to Abrams for a moment. Abrams was given temporary command of CCA for a few weeks in October, but he remained a Lt. Col., and was eventually returned to command the 37th Tank Battalion.

 

Sorry to have disappointed you. But then again my reason here is not for you. The info that I posted was not my own and since this is a discussion forum it gives people the opportunity to post more accurate information. I posted it with the intent to get a discussion going. Perhaps you might like to contact the author and correct him?

 

I was under the impression that you wished to discuss the subject. (This is a WWII discussion website, and I naturally assumed that your reason for being here was to discuss WWII history.)

I have offered the necessary corrections/clarifications, and that is enough for the purposes of the discussion.

I regret that I have offended you. I was merely expressing my disappointment that you started a discussion, but appeared to be unwilling to actually discuss it.

Am I to understand that you do not welcome polite, respectful corrections or clarifications?

Just for the record, anytime I write something here that is incorrect, I welcome correction, and will do my level best to discuss my errors without rancor.

 

I enjoy corrections and clarifications. That is how we all learn. I responded to your clarification on the 37th Tank Regiment/Battalion. You were correct and I acknowledged that. The author of the article was slightly incorrect in that aspect. But as I have said I am not here to get your approval nor to disappoint you. As others here can attest I have no problem taking corrective information. Mainly with good humor and Grace LOL.Also I have never claimed to be an "expert" nor that what I post is 100% accurate.If something is incorrect the additional info is welcome. Some things that are posted may have flaws That is why I try to post more then one source on the subject. I would love to see yours. And just because there are some inconsistancies does not negate the outcome of the battle. And hopefully this would create a desire in others to read up on it.

 

The outcome of the series of engagements under discussion is not in question. The way they were fought, by what units, under who's command, and with what equipment, is important. It is, I think, crucial to understanding these engagements.

The idea that the 37th Armored Regiment was roaming around the 4th A.D. front with two battalions of light tanks and four battalions of medium tanks paints an entirely different picture than the three tank battalions that made up the entire tank force of the division. Don't you agree?

My Sources, In Part:

Stanton, Shelby, Order of Battle, US Army, WWII

Koyen, Kenneth, Capt., The Fourth Armored Division from the Beach to Bavaria

Sorley, Lewis, Thunderbolt From the Battle of the Bulge to Vietnam and Beyone: General Creighton Abrams and the Army of His Times

 

What I wrote was:

"Am I to understand that you do not welcome polite, respectful corrections or clarifications? "

Clearly, I did not accuse anyone of being impolite or disrespectful, nor was that my intention.

I had absolutely no idea that expressing my disappointment at a response was discordant. Please accept my apology. I will go back an re-examine the forum rules so I will not make the same or similar mistakes of conduct in the future.

 

Agreed Jeff .