various discussions on Islam

well smeg ...hurray for mr shaikh and my his god and all gods protect him now that his name and picture are published ..really ,im very glad to see there is a mr shaikh in the world , are there any others like him ,anyone ?..and i would hope most other muslim informants are not publicly named ...geeez

 

"Whitey"? Given that I'm white, Smeg, I do not care for that particular appellation, nor for the tone of the rest of your post. You have every right to disagree with me and to engage in debate on a topic, but you will abide by the rules of this forum in doing so. And on another note, you will please refrain from calling me "cassie" in the future.

 

Edited by Moderator

I don't mind saying that your original post was not the exactly epitome of reason, so you could have expected such a response... It also had little in the way of relevance or evidence, and when I see any tiny bit of authority which suggests that "there are no real muslim demonstrations of any size" and "we're not even humans to them" perhaps then I will give that contention the respect it most certainly doesn't deserve...

And I'm not calling you 'whitey', I'm using the term to refer to all white people... I am also white and so there would be no real point of purpose me using the term in a racist and derogatory manner...

This topic has been nothing but an anti-Muslim circus with no evidence at all, and despite my behaviour I'd be more disgusted with myself if i didn't say so... I thought we were more educated that this


Till then, here's another one for you to munch on
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,156 ... 28,00.html

 

Ok, three things.

1) I'm not sure I like where the overall tone of this debate is going. Please don't get agressive, offensive, defensive, or any other 'ive'

2)

*Looks hurt*

3) On the topic of 'Mulim informants' against terrorism, it is a good idea to compare it to other, non-Muslim terrorist events. Say, The Northern Irish Troubles. How frequently were IRA (and all the rest) actions thwarted because of an informant? Or looking elsewhere, Basque Seperatist operations? Or ETA?
The answer - very rarely. Why? Because as noted before terrorist cells tend not to tell people what they are planning to do, and tend to deliberately not draw attention to themselves by doing odd things like wandering round the highstreet in a black baliclava, carrying an AK-47 and a book titled 'How to make your own Semtex'.

 

I apologise for my heated comments the other day... To Woody and to corpcasselbury...
However, sometimes certain topics still need to be criticized very harshly...

 

...it would be a wonderful thing if muslims were taught only to "criticize non belivers harshly " unfortunately they are taught to subjigate or destroy those who do not submit to islam ( btw , this nice sentiment is being taught to many muslim children inside the uk and usa } ..leaving the faith is punishable by death even today in many places in the islamic world . jihad may be an inner search for god but it is also an exortation to spread islam throughout the world ,by whatever means necessary ...
..i just watched a clip on utube where a british muslim cleric when asked ...did not the koran forbid the killing of innocents ? ,kindly clareified for the brit tv reporter that the koran forbids the killing only of "muslim innocents " and that nonbelivers were, by definition, not innocents ,whatever their age or sex ... a harsh view indeed...which ,btw , i criticize harshly ...

 

IT is up to their clerics.Islam has no central body to rule on their conduct unlike the Vatican.Functions very much like protestantsin terms of governance.It just so happens that many muslims are taught the radical way. Muslims in Singapore live side by side with me and our children play together.We visit each other's homes and exchange goodies(traditional food,HALAL of course)

IU guess for most forum members here, you haven't live among them long to live with them.But of course,the environments of your respective countries causes communities to live within their own.

 

Church of England (Protestant) does have a leading authority Still, your point is entirely correct, and I think I made it a while ago in relation to something else.

Personally I grew up with several Muslim neighbours, and we would regularly receive parcels of food (We made it mild for you!) from various households. In exchange my Mum would help the kids out with their English (manty of them spent significant chunks of time out in Pkistan, so their English was under-used) My parents still get these gifts, but I have moved out now. I miss the free curry .

 

Ah,but the Church of England is Anglican right? Modeled after the catholics.

And we know how the Anglican church came into being

Suffice to say, all other denominations were born out of revivals.

 

Woody if you are writing about wahhabi version of Islam (which you obviously are) say so and don't throw all versions (sects) of Islam into the same pot.

 

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm

look at the highlighted parts.



A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal
after he has his [orgasm]. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however. Selling the
meat to the next-door village is acceptible.

Grand Ayatollah Khomeini, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qum, Iran, 1990

 

Probably not the best place to get your information from Revere... This site preaches peace but encourages hate, its hypocrisy and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone

 

muhamid was not like jesus ,or moses or sidihartha , muhamed was a brutal ,illiterate ,epileptic ,pedophile warlord and brigand ,he was not about love or acceptance or peace .he was very much about violence ,slavery ,rapine and subjigation ,he ordered the assasination of critics and paid his troops with the wives and daughters of his vanquished enemys ,( muslim heaven is all about sex and orgys afterall , think of seventy tender virgins at your beck and call )
.. islam was spread from arabia into north africa and persia by nothing less than brute force , the defination of the word islam is "to submit " ...wether muslims are shia ,sunni or wahabi ,they all read from the same jumbled textbook , this text is filled with patent nonsense ,bigotry and venom , the claim that it cannot be translated from arabic is way of covering up and whitewashing the message for western ears . " ooh no ,it doesnt say that ! its in arabic and hence it says whatever i tell you it says "
.the text is accepted by muslims as verbatim written by gods own hand and cannot be abridged or edited in any way and it must be changed in order for muslims to practice tolerance , all muslims are not violent jihadists but it is easy for jihadists to point out in chapter and verse why they are correct in their jihad and to recruit new blood even among muslims who were born and raised in our own countrys ..the text has only one translation and that is the literal translation ,lucky for us , native arab ex muslim apostates can read and interpret the text for us at faith and freedom ,smeg claims these former muslims are full of hate and bile ,go have a look and see if you think smeg is correct . its true you will see plenty of hate , vitreol and even death threats , but not by the apostates ....can you guess ,by who??

 

:angry: :angry: Prove that. :angry:
I don't get it. There was so much commotion on my topic about downed US planes, but such inflaming rethoric that is insulting to much of the world's population is allowed. There was much desgust about my percived anti-americanism there, but this here is just religious racism. But hey this is obviously OK. :angry:
:angry: As i said, prove it. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

You obviously don't know much about Christian history. We were the same in this respect.

Same could be said about all christian sects and the bible. Take for example born again christian variety ( evolution doesn't exist, appocalipse is just around the corner just a little push is needed....)

Look at the previous point

Like in your post?

 

Some points...

In a society dominated by males, it is perfectly understandable that a religion like this would have much more appeal among the common people than one that preaches to turn the other cheek and to love your neighbour. On the other hand, while Islam promotes the subjugation of women to a subordinate status, the dress code that many people agitate against is supposed to protect them against the urges of men.

The Arabs spread across these lands by brute force. The spread of their religion was brought about by providing the Muslim minority of the population with privileges and tax benefits. The definition of the word "islam" is "to submit" - to Allah, not to other Muslims (which, by the way, means "teachers").

I find this a pretty hilarious assumption. You're supposing that no Westerners can read Arabic, and that the whole Koran is a conspiracy to keep the teachings of Islam from Western ears? Firstly the rule that the book cannot be translated is much older than "the west" that you suppose is the victim of this conspiracy; secondly, it has in fact been translated. Oh, and thirdly, the god of the Old Testament wasn't exactly a kind and forgiving type either - the New Testament was pretty revolutionary in that sense.

 

No theres a diffrence, Christianity teaches forgiveness and people with self centered ambitions made up parts of the bible so to justify and get the ignorant masses to follow. This also happened hundreds of years ago while Muslims pretty much act the same. paranoid that the franks will come back for anther crusade. Christianity also has the same bible Protestants,Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox all have the same text with words changed

also the Koran says it bluntly what it wants.

Quote:
muhamed was a brutal ,illiterate ,epileptic ,pedophile warlord and brigand ,

http://debate.org.uk/topics/coolcalm/cruelty.html

Brutal: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, #234

He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle."

http://www.submission.org/illiteracy.html

Illiterate:

It has been part of the Muslim’s belief, based on traditions, that Prophet Muhammad was illiterate. God says in verse 29:51 that the Quran itself is the only miracle of the prophet. By alleging illiteracy for him, traditional Muslims were trying to make the claim even "more miraculous," for a book of such literary quality was sent down through an illiterate man.

http://www.answeringinfidels.com/answer ... -girl.html

Pedophile:

For the Western mind, perhaps the most disturbing fact about Islam is that its founder had a sexual relationship with a nine-year-old girl.

Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated that the Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married her when she was six years old, and he consummated her in marriage when she was nine years old. Then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).[2]

Khadijah died three years before the Prophet (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) departed to Madina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.[3]


no comparison can be made between Jesus or Muhammad. besides they were both prophets in Muslim eyes.[/quote]

 

Oh interesting we burned them at the stake, quartered them, impale them (that practice was much more widespread in chritianity that anyone wants to admit), drown them.... you name it we christians did it.

Pretty much doubt that one. He was from wealthy merchant family. I realy doubt that they would not educate their son if for nothing else for commercial reasons ( its easy to doublecross illiterate merchant)

lets see. at the time it wa a quite common practice. In Europe it was still used in middle ages especcialy in royal families (political merriages...).

I see the same situation in Islam ( ie countries with most problems with radical Islamists). If you have a bunch of illiterates it is easy to indoctrinate them. It is a great tool to focus the social problems on religious field. Even those who are educated are much easier to indoctrinate (pack mentality).

Have you read Woddy's posts lately? IMHO the exactly same paranoia.

 

Yes, I know but you said "prove it" and so I showed you Muhammad (him still marrying a child as an adult i would consider him a pedophile, same goes for the kings of the middle ages.) seems to of done all those things which you took offense to.

The new testament doesn't justify violence as the Koran does.

 

Illiterate?

 

I showed it to you, but you dont think its factual and if you dont believe it im not going to get you to change your mind no matter how much information I bring up.