Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

videos with the danes in Musa Qala, Afganistan

Discussion in 'Post-World War 2 Armour' started by Jens Knudsen, Oct 6, 2006.

  1. Jens Knudsen

    Jens Knudsen New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denmark
    via TanksinWW2
    http://www.nato.int/kosovo/docu/u990610a.htm

    Annex 2 pt 4:
    This is from 1998, the year before NATO attack Serbia, Serbia did not forefill this resolution from UN
    http://www.nato.int/kosovo/docu/u980331a.htm

    This one is also from 1998 and Serbia did not forefill that neither
    http://www.nato.int/kosovo/docu/u980923a.htm

    you see the picture, UN made resolutions, Serbia did not forefill them
    NATO then came with a ultimatium and suggestion on solving the situation: simply giv Kosovo a form of self-goverment under Serbia supreme govement, mean kosovo would stay as part of Serbia, the Kosovo albanian accepted, Serbia did not

    at this point UN have already stated that Serbia should withdraw their forces from kosovo to stop the killing, Serbia did not do so

    you see NATO's attack was legimit the moment the genocide started, even UN secretary-general called it a genocide
     
  2. Hoosier phpbb3

    Hoosier phpbb3 New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Bloomington, Indiana USA
    via TanksinWW2
    Jens:
    I've edited my post to reflect your correct name-spelling. My apologies... too quick on the the keyboard today!

    sinissa:
    My offer stands.
    Yes, I know where Yugoslavia AND Kosovo are located on the map. Here in my home-town, we have many residents from all-over the world. (College town.) We are also home to one of the finest steak-houses in the Midwest-region of the country.
    "Yanko's Little Zagreb."
    It was founded by a native of the region that settled here. Regretably, the owner died in a house-fire this spring. The community was very saddened, but the restaurant--and it's name--live on.

    You just might be surprised at the diversity found in Indiana. Also, from your continued generalizations it's clear you still have much to learn about Americans. Arrogance and geographical knowledge--or lack thereof--is not a trait exclusive to citizens of our country.

    Tim
     
  3. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    U constantly avoid the question,do the UN aprowe NATO strikes,r it was not?
    2.If that is democracy then same metthod can be used for N.Ireland ,Focklands Islands,Katalonia,Checnia,Corsica,and alot more regions in the world.Just dont forget that kosovo natives r Albanians,and they got their country Albania,so that will be only expanding the Albania.And more,samo metthod can be used in croatia and bosnia where Serbs r more then 80% population there for more then 300 year.Dont use double standars,and interprete them as u want.
    Hooiser i say most of them.Rearly somebody know where is serbia,most of them dont know what Balcan is.
     
  4. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Luton, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    It sure can. But, when did you hear the side that opposes the status quo ask for a vote on it? Never. Why? Because they are a minority (or unpopular with the majority of residents) and will lose. And they know it.
     
  5. Jens Knudsen

    Jens Knudsen New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denmark
    via TanksinWW2
    UN did not vote for air strike on Serbia, but they did not have to, there was servel resolutions that Serbia did not forefill and intenational laws say that a genocide and ethnic cleansing have to be stop with what it takes, diplomacy was tried first, when that did not help, you use the altenativ, military power, servel plans for peace were purposed both from UN and NATO, NATO just had the power and will to force Milosevic back to the negotia table and they did.
    Thats why NATO had a green light to stop Milosevic from the intenational community
    If UN have to vote for everything on this planet, nothing would happen, just look Dafur, UN keep voting for plans for that region and nothing happen, the killings continue

    and democracy also goes for all those region you mention, if N. Irland vote for independs they would get it and same with all the other regions, the problem is, there have been no referedum about it and in most of the region people have used violents against civilians, which is unacceptable and undemocratic
    so if you think that democracy dont goes for our own part of the world then you dont know about the westen world and westen culture good enough
     
  6. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,392
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kent, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    The majority of the population of Northern Ireland are not Republicans but Loyalists and do not want to be absorbed into the Republic, infact the partition of Ulster was part of the agreement made with Eire intended to protect the overall Protestant Loyalist minority in the North. The treaty included the proviso that Northern Ireland would never become part of Eire.

    What do you base your assumption that a democratic vote in NI would result in reunification with Eire?

    Equally the Falkland Islanders are British citizens and English speaking. The Falklanders want to be British not Argentine and consider themselves Falklanders not Malvinas, what do you base your assumptions to the contrary on?
     
  7. Jens Knudsen

    Jens Knudsen New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denmark
    via TanksinWW2
    http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html

    Article 1
    See that little word in the end "punish" Serbia got punished

    Article 2
    so dont come and say that to stop Serbia in Kosovo was against international law, this little international law have been around since 1948

    if you have problem with above link, try this: http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/documents/gncnvntn.htm
     
  8. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    KOFI ANNAN: I think that is something that the Security Council takes into consideration. It assesses the situation. It assesses the capacity of the region and also, more or less, gives an indication of what the mandate should be. In each of these instances, the recent -- take the one in East Timor, the Australian-led peacekeeping forces went in with a mandate from the Security Council, and they're reporting periodically to the Council. And I think the Council is in agreement as to the broad role that force is to play. The peace -- the force that went into Kosovo was different because it did go in without express consent of the Security Council, and so one cannot say that the Council gave them a mandate to undertake what they did
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/international/july-dec99/annan_10-18.html
    So where u see there that nato acion was Aproowed by UN?
    Ok,u provide resolution about genocide.Most off that there albanians do to the Serbs eawen as we speaking,NATO forces r there,and ppl still die,and they harash them ewery day.Bomb was drpoed in serbian bar not so long a go,there was raid by albanians where many serbian churches and monasterys was burned and where ppl lost their lifes.It is not genocide?They dont alow serbs to come back,it is in definition of genocide?
    Serbia is charged for sending para-military forces in bosnia,Albaninas had "atlantic division",about 800 mans,US citisens who fight on kosovo,that was not para-military? Who send them,train them?They r US citisens.
    So why u dont allow N.Ireland to vote for separation? Serbia Diti alow to Monteneggro,and we separated on peace,but montenegro is state,kosovo is region,it is walley like Normandy in france,not a state.SO basicly u say:
    If enought foregners populate part of denmark that they can be majority,u will allow them that they separate from denmark on referendum?
     
  9. Jens Knudsen

    Jens Knudsen New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denmark
    via TanksinWW2
    They did not need a mandate from UN, they already had from the international law against genocide, look at article 1, to prevent and to punish it says, that mean that member countries have to take action when thing like that happen and it happend in Kosovo, it happend in Bosnia
    The consent to stop these thing were giving in 1948, 51 years before Kosovo, that mandate had been there for 51 years, the action were approved in 1948 by the whole of UN
    I have friends that have been there as soldiers in Kosovo and people dont get killed in huge numbers as you give the expression about that they do and btw. the danish soldiers and the other NATO soldiers is running around and trying to protect the Serbs with they own physical present, meaning putting their own lifes into harms way if needed.
    NATO did not want to wait for another approvement, they already had one through the law against genocide, from the slow UN and sit back and watch people get killed in huge numbers.

    And why N. Irland have not hold a vote about independs? the parlement of N. Irland, and yes they do have a democratic elected parlement, have to approve it with majority of votes and that have not happend yet because they know that most of the people N. Irland want to be a part of England, its called DEMOCRACY

    And yes, if enough people from the Kingdom of Denmark want to seperat by a referendum, they would be allowed to do so, let me give you an exsample on that, our present border with Germany was settle by a referendum in 1920, meaning a part of North Sleschwieg went to Denmark, the rest, Sleschweig and Holstein went to Germany, there are danes and germans on both side of the border, so want the serbs did in kosovo would be like if we moved our troops in to north sleschweig and started to kill the germans simply because they want to be a part of Germany and not Denmark
     
  10. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,392
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kent, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    Being US citizens does not mean that they're sent and trained by the US. Hell, there're British citizens fighting for the Insurgency in Iraq against British troops, are we in a state of civil war...?

    Several reasons, first, as I already indicated views are so polar that the result is a forgone conclusion, the Protestant-Loyalist Majority will vote to remain part of the UK.

    Second, any vote to re-unite with Eire would be illegal under the terms of the treaty negotiated after the Easter 1916 uprising, which guaranteed Ulster remaining as part of the UK for the safety of the Protestant/Loyalist community who (not without reason) feared reprisals from Catholic/Republicans.

    Lastly, things are pretty calm in NI at the moment, the Republicans are getting far more recognition (And thus legitimacy in the eyes of the rest of Britain as a whole) and on the recieving end of far less descrimination. Any vote to even decide on reunification or not would mean a backlash from hardline Unionists/Loyalists, which would in turn provoke a counter from hardline Republicans. London would have to intervene and probably suspend Stormont, the Republican politicians lose their legitimate power and things go back the 1960s again.

    No-one wants that, least of all the Republicans.
     
  11. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    UN by resolution 1244 guarantee that Sebia is souverign country and that kosovo is part of serbia.

    Yes,and there in rest of the decret is procedure for that.Shorted-allways politic ways forst,then if that fail military but there MEMBER COUTRIES not NATO countries.And try to explain me,how serbia got legal rigut to sue NATO for agression,if ewerything was legal?
     
  12. Jens Knudsen

    Jens Knudsen New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denmark
    via TanksinWW2
    NATO members are also members of UN, NATO is a millitary co-operation between some parts of the westen world and it was the only millitary co-operation that was strong enough to do something about the killings in Kosovo, the attack was legal because Serbia violented international laws on genocide and crimes against humanity, you are just mad because you lost the war, its a FACT that Serbia security forces killed albanians in kosovo, even the UN stated that, its a FACT that albanians were driven out of Kosovo, UN stated that to, those things are a violention of international laws and give any country that have signed the convertion on genocide from 1948 the right to stop it, even NATO members, which also are members of UN, since they have signed it to

    UN and NATO tried with diplomacy first, peace talks in Paris and countless meetings with Milosevic in Belgrad, that failed then NATO used force and Serbia lost and now you are simply just mad

    and you have the right to sue NATO, everybody in the democratic world have the right to try their case at court, thats why Serbia got the right to sue, to try their case at court, its part of democracy, just look how many people sue each other in USA

    And kosovo is still a part of Serbia, no one have ever stated otherwise.

    The attack was well with in international laws, laws that UN have made, same UN that you keep state is the supreme international power, so those laws must be supreme international laws
    so the law, about genocide that state that all countries, which is countries that is member of both UN and NATO, that have signed it shall also prevent genocide, must be a supreme law.

    The FACTS is Serbia did not forefill UN resolutions, Serbia was killing albanians in large numbers and therefore violented international laws and by that giving the rest of the world the legal right to stop it, both with diplomacy, which failed, and with millitary power
     
  13. GP

    GP New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,432
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2

    Sorry to disagree with you but a vote can occur under the Northern Ireland act of 1998

    http://www.leeds.ac.uk/law/hamlyn/ni98.pdf

    and since 1973, I cannot remember the act that provided this.

    The main reason this has not happened is the government of Eire does not want Northern Ireland. Under the EC Eire has been given a lot of aid and has become quite wealthy, it has a population of about 4 million, Northern Ireland has about 1.7 million, If they were to absorb this extra population it would put a greater burden on their funds.

    Secondly if the vote was to occur today the Loyalist outnumber the Republicans by 2 to 1. Bear in mind not all catholics wish to be Irish and not all Prodestants wish to be British.

    I hope this make the situation clear. Thanks
     
  14. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    Now i see all,NATO is UN...so basicly,as u say,UN dont need 2 exsist anymore.
     
  15. Jens Knudsen

    Jens Knudsen New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denmark
    via TanksinWW2
    now you simply just twist words in lack of any arguementation, NATO is not UN, but the same countries that is member of NATO is also members of UN

    You see, when you sign a convention as a country, you make obligation to forefill that convention, so when the NATO member countries have signed the UN convention on genocide, they also have the obligation to forefill it, no matter if they do it as NATO or as UN, because they signed as a country, meaning Denmark has as a country signed the convention on genocide, so Denmark as a country has the obligation to forefill it, not because they are a member of UN nor NATO, so sometimes Denmark try to forefill it through the UN and sometime Denmark try to forefill it through NATO
    So when you sign a convention as country, you have the obligation to forefill it as a country, no matter what organisation you are member of
     
  16. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    And to rise abowe international law? U that basics,as u see,if serbia notice genocide on kosovo now (what is at the present) so we got right for military action? None shoud be abowe th UN,especialy NATO as military organisation,not political one.
     
  17. Jens Knudsen

    Jens Knudsen New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denmark
    via TanksinWW2
    NATO did not rise above international law, NATO followed international to prevent genocide on albanians
    what is it you dont understand? NATO's member countries have signed the convention on genocide to prevent and to punish genocide and thats what they did in Kosovo, they simply followed a convention made by UN and signed by many countries and each country that have signed it is obligated to forefill it, thats what the NATO countries did, forefilled their obligates to prevent a genocide
    and if you dont understand that, then Im very sorry for you, you seem to live in a darkend world, darkend by your hate against the westen countries, thats why you also seem to think that is a genocide going on in Kosovo now, there is not, I have friends that have been there not long ago and the only thing that is happen now is mafia related crimes.
    But you seem to live in a darkend world where you are blinded by your own hate over that Serbia lost the war

    but let me put it simply for you: NATO is obligated to prevent genocide because their member countires have signed the UN convention on genocide and they prevented a genocide in Kosovo

    and to use your own aguementation now: if you say that no countries should be above UN to prevent genocide, then WHAT THE H**L DID SERBIA DO IN KOSOVO IN THE FIRST PLACE? you cant come and say they were there to prevent a genocide on serbs there, because they did not have green light to do so from UN, why did Serbia go to war in Kosovo? they did not have the permission from UN to do so, permission you self say that everybody else shall have, did Serbia then not also act against UN? as I see it, you mean that NATO should have a permission from UN before going to war, but Serbia should not
    can you see your own double standard now??? or are you too darkend by hate to do so?
    Why is it that NATO shall have permission to go to war from UN when Serbia did not seem to need it? what make Serbia different from other countries so they dont need UN's permission to go to war?
     
  18. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    Ok,u started to show ur ignorence.Kosovo is Serbian land ower 900years,as a proof for that r monestarys dated 11-13 century.Actualy nearly 100 off them.Why serbian army and police was on kosovo? It is the same as why france police and army do in normandy.And do u know how albaninas made money for war?Distribution of drugs,and slavery,biggest drugg road to western EU go trought kosovo.Serbian army was not engaged against Albanians till 1999. (nato agression) only police forces was there,army secured borders,and engaging in to fights was on borders only.Was dead there? Yes.Why in peace negotions was not allow to be UN forces on kosovo?U tell me.They insisted on NATO forces.Where is nato campaing done something good? Nowhere.Look Afganistan,still fighting ewery day.What is the plan,100Y off ocupation? Look Iraq (US only) did they done something good? I dont see that.Look kosovo,is it kosova safe place for any non albanian,r albanian?No it not.Part of agreements when UN come on kosovo vas that they must disarm KLA,did they done it? They admited thet they failed in that.Why NATO bombed chemichal industry in serbia?It is forbiden by geneva convention,i will not say that is in populated area,and that cancer and astma now r 20x frequently then befor 1999.So if any of previus colateral damage was with no intention,this was.My motther got cancer,since 2001 and she will not live much longer,from my hud only 2 ppl died from cancer and one was 7y old boy.So tell me why was bombed chemichal industry,why they use uranium shells,Serbia dont hawe chemical weapons,no nuclear weapons,so what was the reason?
     
  19. Jens Knudsen

    Jens Knudsen New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denmark
    via TanksinWW2
    You did not answer my simply question: Why does NATO need permission from UN to prevent a genocide, when Serbia dont seem to need it?
    Why does NATO need permission from UN to go to war when Serbia dont need it?
    you stated it you self that you need permission from UN to go to war, Serbia did not have permission from UN to go to war in Kosovo.

    Denmark is over 1000 years old, as proof of that there is a stone with runic latters from the viking age mention the name of Denmark, but it still dont give us the right to shoot germans that live in Denmark just because they want to be a part of Germany
    and the French army and police in Normandy? there is peace in Normandy, no war there and the french police and army dont run around and kill people that want to be a part of another countries (if there are any) or people that are making other kind of criminal activitis
    and what have Iraq to do with Kosovo and NATO? nothing, Iraq is a USA-led operation, not NATO, so stop mix Iraq into the discussion about Kosovo and NATO, its two differents things.
    The drugs also goes through Denmark into Sweden, should Sweden then attack Denmark and kill all the danes to stop the drug route?
    And it was NATO forces that moved into Kosovo because it was NATO that was the only organisation that did something about Kosovo and dont come and say there was no other suggestion, OSCE was suggested first by the UN resolutions, the same resolutions that Serbia did not forefill and in the same resolutions stated UN that there were Serbia security forces in Kosovo, the same UN that you called the supreme international power, or was UN lying?
    The war was already started in Kosovo when NATO attacked Serbia, even UN stated that or was UN lying again?

    So answer my simpel questions: what gav Serbia the right to go to war against albanians in Kosovo with out permission from UN, when you self stated that no countries are allowed to go to war with out permission from UN?
    and Why did Serbia not need permission from UN to prevent what they called genocide (you stated you self that there was a genocide on serbs in Kosovo) but NATO should have permission from UN before they try to prevent a genocide on albanians in Kosovo? is Serbs more worth then Albanians?
    Why is Serbia different then NATO so they dont need permission from UN?

    And the plan for Afghanistan is to prevent the return of Talaban and to build up a Afghan national army, things that can take very long to do, and btw. NATO are there because the Democratic elected President of Afghanistan and the democratic elected parlement of Afghanistan asked them to be there.

    so if anyone here is ignorend then its you, for you Serbia seem to the only that have right and the rest of the world is wrong
     
  20. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    Why was serbian army and police was on kosovo? I answered to that,coz it is part off serbia,and KLA first started attack on serbian forces,not oposite.What turkey (NATO member as i remember) do with Kurds,on their own land?NATO cant hurt otther country souverign withouth UN explicit request to do that,KOSOVO IS PART OF SERBIA,so there was no invasion.Serbian army and police exsist there for hundread off years.

    I answer u,now u answer me on previus 5-6 question (see my posts) coz u avoiding constantly all off them.
     

Share This Page