Von Stauffenburg, traitor or hero?

I thought you wanted them to have been unlyoal earlier, how can you hold it against them later?

 

ínloyal in the eyes of a nazi :bang:

 

Absolutely.
Generally, the military resistance to Hitler only became active when they tought Hitler would lead Germany into catastrophe.
In 1938 during the Sudetes crisis they planned to remove Hitler as soon as the war against France and Britain would break out, as they tought such a war would lead Germany into disaster.

During WW2 military resistance was more or less inexistant till Stalingrad.
As long as the war went well, they had no problem with the way the nazis led that war.
Before Operation Barbarossa, german senior officers all recieved the "Komissarbefehl" which stated that jews and soviet officials should be murdered as soon as taken prisoner.
Their orders stipulated that this war was to be led without considerations of humanism.
Food supplies for the russian population were not worth consideration because the more would die of starvation, the bether it would be....
How many protested against such orders??

It was only after Stalingrad, that some generals realized that Hitler was leading Germany into disaster, so they came to the conclusion that Hitler had to disapear.
They did not act out of compassion for the jews, slaves or others,or out of hostility to the nazi system but because they felt that in order to save Germany, Hitler had to be killed.

Tough I respect the personal courage of Stauffenberg and others, to me people like Georg Elser or Sophie Scholl who resisted out of idealism and compassion are the real heroes of the german resistance.

 

hes a herooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

 

Would you care to support that opinion, TD?

 

Hmm , lets analyse this more thoroughly, He wanted to kill Hitler because Hitler was putting germany in the crapper, but a hero is someone who puts his own needs ahead of others so he was risking his life by doin this so technically hes a hero.
Not very thorough

 

defenetly not
a hero sacrifices himself for a higher goal and to aid people who suffer but staufenberg did not care about any jews russian pows or anything else as long as they were winning
why is it heroic to try to kill the captain of a sinking ship while in the years befor you supported the captain (hitler) on his way

 

Arguably Von Stauffenberg sacrificed himself for the lives of the German soldiers and civilians he thought he would save by removing Hitler and taking over command. A hero is not defined as someone sacrificing himself for all who suffer, just those which he feels he has reason to help. He thought it was best to remove the captain and become captain himself to make the ship stay afloat, which isn't all that treacherous seeing how terrible a captain Hitler was.

 

come on roel to you really think stauffenberg is a hero
because to me a hero is someone who helps people who suffer no matter wich nationality religion race we are all humans and gods children stauffenberg dident understand it he was no hero just puny lill POMOFO

 

Different people do have different standards on what is a hero.

I would say the fact that Stauffenberg tried to save his country from certain defeat and free it from a tyrannical regime, thus risking his life, could make him a hero.
Because the vast majority of officers, tough they knew that Hitler was leading the country to total defeat and knowing how murderous the regime was, did nothing.

But as I already said, compared to other resistants who acted against the Nazis from the start on,out of moral conviction, without waiting for the tide of war to turn are the real heroes.

 

thats what i mean he want to prevent his country from being defeated and NOT to liberate his country from a murderos dictator ship

 

Primarily yes, Stauffenberg wanted to prevent the defeat of Germany.

Also one must know, that the plans of the conspirators were to make peace with the western allies,return to the 1939 borders in the west and demanding "free hand" in the east.(Very much what Hitler had asked for in 1939).
Had their plan suceeded and had the allies accepted their peace proposal(which actually was more than unlikely), Germany would still have tried to keep a large part of Hitlers conquests in eastern Europe.

But I also think that the awareness of nazi crimes was also a motivation for the conspirators to act.

 

You can't deny that he was trying to save lives by removing Hitler. They were not the lives of the ones we know now to have suffered most under Hitler, but they were still lives - and going by your ideal, these mean as much as the lives of anyone else. Hence, Von Stauffenberg was a hero.

I do not personally think what he did was very idealistic or heroic, however it is not the act of a coward or backstabber either. Not in the case of Hitler. I'd almost go as far as to say anyone who honestly tried to remove Hitler must be considered a hero be default.

 

I think a pole should b added indorder to find out the ver all thought of hero or traitor

personally i think of him as a traitor!

 

Would you care to elaborate on why?

 

ummm if u r reffering to me no comment.

 

No offence but unless you're willing to back up your opinion don't expect it to carry too much weight around here.

 

damn oak table legs :evil:

 

To consider his motive as base and unworthy because he wanted to prevent the defeat and destruction of his people and country rather than some silly altruistic idea of helping all people is pure nonsense IMO.
A German patriot is no less a patriot than a British, French or American one.
Note.. I'm not talking about Nazi idealogues when I say German patriots.

 

Stauffenberg was a hero.