Was the Wehrmacht overrated?

Guderian was not on active duty at that time. After being relieved of command of 2 Panzer Army (December 25, 1941) he was in the OKH officer pool until being appointed Generalinspektor der Panzertruppen March 1, 1943. He also suffered heart trouble during this period and was fortunate to have excellent medical care available; Hitler likely saved Guderian's life by bringing him back to Germany.

 

Your post is correct so far, except point one and three. You alwasy have a other option sometimes the option is bader and the other time it is better. The better otpion would have been that the 6th Army had retreated from the city to get back their abillity to move in the aera. Maybe that they would have been beated but it is always better to move and have the option to react than be encircled and the only option is to recieve the Russian shells at a small aera. I think that this would be a better option for you if you were in such a situation. No one wants to be slaughtered without a chance of escape.
Point 3 is mostly correct but without the support of the OKW the Russians had to do 100% of the work so they had only around 60% to do.

 

The city of Stalingrad did not need to be captured for Blau to be successful; rather the need was to establish a firm flank mainly along the line of the Volga and Don. This would have to include the "land bridge", but the German line could be anchored either on the bend of the Don, north of Stalingrad, or the bend of the Volga south of the city, about where the Volga-Don canal is today.

The obvious Soviet response to the drive into the Caucasus was a counterstroke in the direction of Rostov. The fatal mistake IMO was putting their least capable troops - the Romanians, Hungarians, and Italians - in the crucial sectors. If the intent was to have them absorb the first blow, they should have been backed up by strong mobile reserves. Alternatively they could be "corsetted" between German armies. Some could also be used in other sectors - anywhere except Army Group B - to free up German troops.

 

What is early enough ?
And,it is very unlikely that 6th Army could get out on its own,and,when Manstein was ready,it was to late .

 

1)OKW had no businesswith the war in the east,it was the business of the OKH.
2)That sound very good :6Army retreating out of Stalingrad,but,
when ?There was no indication of Uranus,till it started
was it possible?6 Army was not mobile,and blocked at Stalingrad
retreating:to what line ? The startline of june 1942?
could this line be held ? At the start of Uranus,6Army was very weak :22 divisions ,with an average strength of less than 10000 men .182740 men were encircled at Stalingrad(of which 16345 were evacuated)

 

While very interesting we are all starting to slide a bit off topic...

Lets continue this discussion in the Stalingrad thread

 

Early enough would have been between the 8th or latest the 15th of November. The 19th of November would have been to late. At this time the 6th Army was able to move by herself but possibly they would have lost all their heavy equipment.

 

Returning to the OP:Was the WM overrated?
All armies have been overrated.I would be a very rich man,if I had received a $ every time
some one posted that the US won the war on its own,leaded by J.Wayne,and that without the 15 million boots received from the US,the SU would have lost
some one posted that the SU won the war on its own,and that the Wallies did nothing
some one posted that Germany was defeated by Enigma
some one posted that the WM was an invincible phalanx,but that the civilian,the Austrian corporal spoiled the whole thing .
If we are looking at the WM(not at the qualities of the individual German soldier,who was a tough opponent),what are we seeing?
We are seeing that after the fall of France ,the victories of the WM were over (excepted Greece):the WM failed at the Battle of Britain,at the Blitz,at the Battle of the Atlantic,in NA,during Barbarossa,during Typhoon,during Fall Blau,etc...(the reasons of these failures are complex,but,IMHO,chronologically,the first one is the Treaty of Versailles)
Thus,of course,the WM is ,still today,overrated:why:IMHO,ignorance and bias:it seems that the WM has a successor:the ineradicable army of the fanboys .

 

All are good points and not to discuss because they are facts. I gave you a like and hope that you didn´t meant me with a fan boy!

 

I wouldn't call the Russian war effort A 'defeat'. Because they never signed any declaration of surrendor, though after Lenin took control of the country they signed a peace treaty with the Boche called the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk.

Treaty of Brest-Litovsk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Wars rarely end with a "declaration of surrender" whatever that would be. The unconditional surrender demanded by the Allies in WWII is unusual. Wars generally end with a treaty in which the defeated party makes concessions which reflect the extent to which it has been defeated. The defeated party is often the one which seeks negotiations, but they rarely say flat out "we surrender"; indeed they still try to get the best terms they can, although if they've been as thoroughly defeated as Russia before Brest-Litovsk the peace terms will reflect that.

 

Of course not,and I don't think there are a lot of them on this forum,but,if you have some time to wast,you could look on Stormfront :it is full of them.

 

Haven´t been there but if you won´t need to register i will have a look. As i´ve said before, the Wehrmacht wasn´t overrated from 1939 to somewhere in 1941. But from the autumn of 1941 it was overrated. Fact is, That with their will and often their desperation, they were a hard fighting opponent.

 

There are no fanbois on Stormfront, Nazis and White Suppremacist scum yes, but no fanbois. In my book fanbois are apolitical admirers of the Wehrmacht who have problems to differenciate myths and reality.

 

The latter pretty well describes most current "Nazis and White Suppremacist (sic) scum" does it not?

 

Ok! A matter of semantics! If the likes of Stormfront would be tolerated around here I wouldn't be seen around. Hate them!

 

In Wehrmacht there was no clear borderline between military matters and politics; there was no boundary between warfare and crimes. They have mixed the things up.

Even St. Rommel has voluntarily attended Nazi indoctrination courses to become “a better man”.

Otherwise, regarding the subject, before 1942 Wehrmacht was dominant in Europe, after that they were plainly o v e r r a t e d .

 

I never even heard of the term "fanboy" before. It sounds stupid . The image I have of these guys are young Nazi worshipping ignorants who think they are cool. It's nothing more than a disguised snake to make the unccaptable acceptable.

 

For us, old fashioned the word "fanboy" is something like "young admirers". Their existence indicates the lack of proper parental education nowadays. The minimum we should teach our children is to clearly distinguish what is right and what is wrong.