What if Hitler had left Berlin at wars end where do you think he would have gone? Why

Interesting topic, nice it is here again!

There were several scaping plans for the Führer, the most suitable for the logistics and Hitler's desires were to hide in the Bavarian Alps. Also, there were plans to transport the Führer by submarine to Norway, South America or even Japan. But I can almost assure that he did not want to live outside his beloved Germany. But the man was already convinced of his destiny and I think that he did kill himself in the Bunker, along with his beloved Eva. He had watched some pictures of Duce's fate and surely he did not want to share it. The testimonies of the last people who saw him: his Sekrätarin (translation?), choffer and personal escort all say that he was ill and weak, melancholic and sad, but still a nice person (with them). After the wedding there was a small party and then he shot himself and Eva Braun had a cyanide Pille (translation?). Their bodies were burnt in the Bunker's yard and the Russians saw the corpses, which obviously belonged to Hitler (because of the unique dental records full of gold and special things) and a woman's. He was already too disappointed of life to go on. I don't see suitable the fact of him scaping...

But if he would have, most surely to the Alps, then he would have lead a guerrilla warfare against the Allies and some submarine campaign... But it is too weird and umprobable for me to discuss.

 

As a very late two-cents ( pfennigs? ) worth I really can't see the doddery old Fuhrer hiding in caves around Oberammergau !

But, anyone with any interest in the 'National Redoubt' must read the book 'The Fortress That Never Was' by Rodney G Minott ( 1965 but not too difficult to find ) which is a fascinating account of how Allied Intelligence totally convinced themselves that this 'White Elephant' actually existed and was ready to wreak havoc on the post-war world.

 

Soory guys, I can't agree as my earlier posts read last year. First, can't say whose skulls in Müller's grave. The fact that the head of the Ss police hired by our CIA has to mean something of the man's credibility since he had incredible close ties to the Führer and other higher smucks...also we must remember that during the time of the Legion Condor/Spain; Germany had close ties to South America/ Argentina, Brazil being a few, so reading my articles that I have collected on Müller seem to bear fact and too me it was strongly logical that Hitler could have escaped the last week and had his cousin......poor sap, be his scapegoat. The truth is that Stalin was lied to and this has been a total coverup. The dental records were tampered with and they are not his.

E

 

Well, Erich. I do not agree on that at all. But we cannot agree in everything... wahtever.

What I also find stupid is that theory that Hitler only had one testicle... What the...?! Who said that? Just four people in this world could say if that was true: Klara Hitler, Geli Raubaul, Eva Braun and Adolf Hitler. Perhaps, some personal medic of Hitler, but then if the medic said that was not a good one, because he revealed confidential information without any respect to medic's code...

 

Hitlers personal doctor and interviews with Herr Müller in his biographies. www.bender-publishing.com
look through the books section and I think there are two volumes covering exerpts of Müller to the US authorities right after the war. I have 3/4 articles I should try and make copies of to send to Otto for copying/publication for the sight and you guys then can make up your minds. They are way to long for me to copy and post here. Hitlers cousin had one testicle. The dental records uncovered to not match the deceased one found and it was a cover up to Stalin as he so desperately wanted the remains of the Führer....

E

 

Hello Martin.

I picked Oberammergau as a likely spot that Hitler would choose to go had he decided to leave Berlin because of the difficult terrein features--the mountains and the fresh water availability. This regoin would simply be a great one to "hide" in. I dont necessarily mean he would live in a cave like a caveman--but rather would have had something prebuilt and underground--with the possibility of having a cave intrance as the intrance to a hidden and very secret compound of somekind.

If not this--then I feel he would have tried to make his way to Brazil.

 

If I´d have to choose where Hitler would go to escape the Allied I´d go either to Norway ( still occupied by Germans and with all the fjords should be easy to defend with the later on built forts ) or with sub to Southern America like so many others did. Don´t know though how long he could hide as he probably woud have turned to persona-non-grata in many count´ries in the Southern America.

 

O.K. let's get that straight:

Hitler commited suicide in the Bunker. All the people who were with him in his last days and hours testify that in different sources. A soviet investigation took place, finding the same results. No room for speculation.

Erich,

the "Gestapo-Mueller"-books by "Gregory Douglas" (who is in reality Peter Stahl) you're providing and which seems to be a major "source" for your claims is nothing but a forgery and pure nazi propaganda. I wonder how you happen to not realizung that at first look! I mean: statements like "there were no Einsatzgruppen, those was the Red Army" and similar B/S in that book, C',mon!!

From http://www.splcenter.org/cgi-bin/goframe.pl?refname=/intelligenceproject/ip-4w8.html

"'Risking Their Freedom'
A group of 'internationally renowned scholars' probes 9/11 and, to the surprise of no one, identifies a familiar enemy

WASHINGTON - After you sent in your $180 registration fee, and after receiving your own secret code and calling the secret phone number that came with it, the hidden location was finally revealed. The “galaxy of internationally renowned scholars and journalists,” those brave souls who have “Risked Their Freedom to Bring Truth to the World,” would be meeting at the Holiday Inn on The Hill.

There, amid families on budget trips to the American capital, some 120 people who do not believe that the Holocaust occurred gathered in June to swap dark tales of conspiracies and cover-ups. It was, in the words of The Barnes Review that sponsored it, “a history-making event” - a view not shared by most of those familiar with Review founder Willis Carto, a veteran anti-Semitic extremist.

(...)

And then there was one “Gregory Douglas,” with his top-secret German document proving conclusively the Bush Administration and Israel knew about and likely orchestrated the attacks. “Israel is always involved in everything!” he said.

That certainly got the attention of the attendees. Except, as a sheepish Bill White noted on his “libertarian socialist” Web site later (White had initially hailed the document as revelatory), it turns out that Douglas is an accused forger. Veteran European journalist Gitta Sereny has written that Douglas forged a document that he told her was proof that the Americans and British had helped two Nazi war criminals escape Europe in 1945. Douglas' later book on one of them, Gestapo boss Heinrich Muller, was, she wrote, “filth” that was as “fake” as the earlier document.
(...)"

Hope you didn't pay too much for that piece of fiction. The idea that your money was used to print some thousand nazi leaflets or a couple of brownshirts with swastika on it is somewhat uncomfortable to me...

Cheers,

[ 01 October 2002, 04:35 AM: Message edited by: AndyW ]

 

Hi Andy, you realise this is the WHAT IF thread, right?

 

Yeah, and "what if" I would ask Otto to publish some some faked documents proving that the earth is a flat disk?

Cheers,

 

Then we would have fuel for speculation!

All I wanted to say is that a what if topic is ALWAYS speculation! whatever the topic under discussion; it is all speculation...

 

Andy :

I'll take it then that you have called Roger James Bender on the telephone to tell him that his books are full of B.S. richtig ?
You could be right as I left the thread statements alone back in July of this year, but I will admit since this is a what if anything is possible and I will not take the Soviets word on this issue as fact. We have all heard of cover ups have we not ? ! As I also said believe what you will........this thread is over for me.

E

 

All I'm saying is that "Gestapo Müller" by "Gregory Douglas" is a forgery.

This had been proven by others, and Peter Stahl could not convice the historical community to the contrary, f.ex. by presenting the documents he "used" to back up his claims. History is not a matter of "believing", you have to prove what you say, period.

If reality is unconvenient or not in sync with some agenda, worldview, or conspirany therories, I can't help it.

Cheers,

 

Maybe Hitler escaped from Berlin?!

There has been no proof at all that he died in his bunker. Nor proof that Bormann died in Berlin.

Imagine a double who replaces Adolf the 29th a few hours before he marries Eva. In the meantime Adolf already escaped from his bunker via the undergrounds to the Charlotte Strasse where a plane is waiting to fly him to his good friend, Franco.

And also the bones of Bormann were probably not of him. He escaped whith a lot of money to South-America

 

Don't the Russians have parts of his skull at their "national archives"? I remember being shocked that they stored them in a brown paper bag.......but that's the effect of years of communism for ya.

 

What kind of proof would be enough for you? Anything less than having it seen with your own eyes? Half a dozen independent testimonies? The results of the Soviet investigation?

But OK, The Hitler double wasn't only a double but also a 150% nazi who happily killed dumb himself for the sake of the Fuehrer. At least he was good enough to fool a couple dozen people who lifed with Hitler for years, including goeppels, Hitlers secretaries, doctors and servants. Finally, Eva married a Adolf-double and shot herself after finding out

In the meantime Adolf is on a plane to Spain...crossing the peaceful airspace of half of Europe occupied by the enemy...

Sounds convincing.

As for Bormann, he died. His bones were found in Berlin, a DNS analysis proved that it's him.

Sorry for being a pain, but reality bites.

Cheers,

[ 04 October 2002, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: AndyW ]

 

Yes, you are a pain... But I agree with you this time, Andy.

Even if Hitler would have flown some hundred miles throughout 100% hostile air-space to Spain... These two men FRIENDS?!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahahahaha!!!

 

Not to bash you, Andy, because I too feel Hitler died in the bunker, If only I take into account his emtional state. Yet this is exactly what Leon Degrelle did. He flew to Spain, be it in a private plane, on, I believe, the 8th of May, 1945, from Germany. So, it was possible to escape Berlin and fly elsewhere without being detected.

But still, the possibility is not very big, I feel. Why didn't more Nazi leaders make their get-away then? They were all captured or commited suicide.

Yet completely impossible, it is not....

 

Just checked the story of a Fieseler Storch leaving Berlin at the last moment:

On 23 April 1945 Hider received a communication from Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering, previously his closest aide, which made him furious. He immediately dismissed Goering as C-in-C of the Luftwaffe (Goeringhaving got out of Berlin to safer climes), and appointed in his stead Generaloberst Ritter von Greim. He sent a message from his bunker to Berlin-Gatow calling for von Greim, and Flugkapitän Hanna Reitsch brought him to the Führerbunker in a Storch, flying by night over the entire encircling Soviet armies and landing amid piles of rubble and under enemy fire. Hitler formally invested von Greim, who was then flown out again by the brilliant woman test pilot. She was the last person to get out of beleaguered Berlin, and the return trip should on any rational basis have been impossible.

http://www.kotfsc.com/aircraft/fi156.htm

 

That is true, Kai. Besiede, their Fieseler Storch was almost shot down by Soviet AA guns. Von Greim was indeed wounded in a foot because of it.

And Stevin, you mention a very important point here, Hitler's mental and emotional state at this point. He has lost every hope and certainly was disappointed about the German people and himself. For this I can't visualize him escaping.