What if the Germans attacked Moscow instead of Stalingrad?

How many troops would you consider to be enough?

 

More than some. There several reliable sources that outline the Soviet expectation and defenses of the spring of 1942. The thought was the German Army Group South was aimed at turning North East and cutting behind Moscow, with the Gorki region as its target. A secondary attack would be made by AG Center to pin the western defenders. Hence the RKKA arraigned its defense to counter this.

Only on paper is this correct. To prepare for the Southern attack the bulk of the units of AG North & Center were left understrength. The replacements in the spring of 1942 were insuffcient to make up much more than 30-40% of the previous ten months losses. Closely related was the supply of ammunition, spare parts, and fuel. Stocks were in place to sustain only one Army Group in long term operations. An initial surge of maybe six armys in the attack, and four armored/infantry armys into the autum.

Thus an attack towards Moscow would have been into the enemy strength, and with 33% of the offensive power of June 1941. The offensive of AG South went so well in the summer of 1941 because its was opposed by a neglected weaker Soviet infantry defense, and then by armored forces that were not ready for such operations. Attacking towards Moscow would have been opposed by far denser infantry/AT defenses, with the RKKA armored units better positioned and supported.

 

Exactly!

Hitler had perfect timing either by brilliant strategy or just by luck. As if Hitler had attacked one year later or 4 years earlier, the Germans would have faced a much more formidable foe.

Germany attacked when she herself was in best shape and the Soviet Union was at it most Vulnerable.

 

It was a joke, sorry if I didn't use Smilies.

Here is another what-if: What if the Germans dropped ten thousand naked French women into the Russian line? Would that have won the war for Germany? Surely the Red Army + Vodka + French women= unimaginable chaos.

 

Then I would imagine that different guns for shooting would be used?

And Germany would have still lost as Siberians shoot more accurately.

 

Dr. Goebbels: "The Russians have been halted due to Hitler's military genius and the valor of the French women. The Führer will award Ironcross first class to the ones with distinguished performance".

 

Kursk a year early?

 

Ok i'll be brief, would Stalingrad have held with the full force of Heers Gruppen Sud thrown against it and not just 6th Armee and part of Panzer Group Hoth, and i'll throw every available foreign unit that served with Heers Gruppen Sud, methinks not, would Moscow have held if both Heers Gruppens Nord und Mittel have gone after it, methinks not.

 

Aha so funny, naked French women dropped on enemy soldiers.

Can I ask why French women ?

Looks like your bound for a final crusade against humor, now.

 

If by my records are correct the Germans had secured the Vyazma Pocket by 19th October 1941 and were a mere 156 kilometres from Moscow and they just stood there while uncle Addy sent the panzers to Leningrad and Kyev, and finally after postulating the Germans finally decided to attack Moscow on the 6th December 1941, but on the night of the 5th/6th December the worst winter front in living memory had hit, what would have happened had the German Army Group Centre had none of its Armour diverted to either Leningrad or Kyev but focused on its advance immediately after the Vyazma Pocket and reached Moscow say a week later on the 26th October 1941, and they decided to launch a full scale assault on the city on the 28th October 1941, that would give the Germans a least 5 full weeks in its assault on Moscow proper without the hinderence of General Winter, or wait until the Spring of 1942, and yes i understand the casuallty rate amongst the German but they by this time still had the upperhand with momentum.

So in my senario Moscow comes under full assault months before Stalingrad therefore Stalin has one major problem either keep his units in Stalingrad and Leningrad and let Moscow fall or withdraw from the said cities and move them to Moscow, this would strip Stalingrad and Leningrad without adequate defenders.

 

What would all the Red Army captured at Kiev have been doing if AGC had gone for Moscow first?

As it happens I can't imagine a German victory in the USSR without the 'rotten structure crashing down' as Hitler predicted.

Bear in mind that when the Red Army went the other way, it gave the same emphasis to the flanks that Hitler had. Eisenhower did the same after Normandy. They can't all have been wrong can they?

I think Moscow was significant, rather like the Pripet marshes - something that couldn't be ignored but I favour the view that the German invasion was based on so many false premisses (200 divisions instead of 600? Helot population won't fight for the regime? Ukraine an Eldorado? Slavs can't tie their own bootlaces?) that the Germans could never force a strategic decision whetever they did.

It gets a bit chilly in Russia in winter! The winter equipment of the Ostheer was in Poland bacause there wasn't enough transport for it. This was rationalised by the assumption that the war would be in the bag in 10 weeks. weather records for 1941 apparently show that by Russian standards that winter wasn't exceptional.

 

By no means! The rest of the Red Army would get wind of it and rise up in a Oriental Horde (TM) style and start an unstoppable offensive untill all of France and their wimin were overrun, no matter what came in between!

Check, please?

 

Would Chanel 5 freeze in the Russian winter? Would we have to gather round the femmes Francaise and blow on them to warm them up?

 

Seems to me the thread is not going anywhere anymore that would be even close to the normal standard for our forums. I suggest we close this thread immediately.

 

I agree. The oriiginal premise has been discussed in more intellegent terms elsewhere.

 

Move it to the Free Fire Zone instead. We all love silly threads. Better yet, to the What-If. Zone.

Hey! It's already in the what-if zone, so you don't need to do anything about it!

 

hold on! you all commented it, so here's my view on the hot issue...

throwing french girls behind russian lines would have been a complete nonsense!!
everybody knows that russian girls are definitely the best in europe!

ok, now i said it.... so you can move the sub-thread.


PS: i'm not russian

 

I am!!

And I like all girls, im not picky!

 

Beggars can not be choosers.

 

Damn you Tikilal!!! I say Damn you!!!


( I left myself wide open for that one )