Why bash America for coming late to WW2?

Noboby NOBODY thinks of themselves as the bad guys regardless of which country they are. Your side is always the good guys and are fighting for Truth Justice and the (complete as appropriate) way! The opposition on the other hand is always the bad guys who are determined the crush all oposition beneath their jackbooted heel! And allies are usually a bunch of shirkers who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

Simply the way the human mind work.

 

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One could put it this way:

Would Britain and France have won WW1 without the US? Probably not!

Would Britain and the US have won WW1 without France? Probably not!

Would the US and France have won WW1 without Britain? Probably not!

So I think one cannot say that any particular country won WW1!

 

Actually the Germans had been starved out of the first World War, and the cream of the German army had been destroyed; something like 3 million dead soldiers
One of the huge morale busters was the effect of the Prussians no longer seen as supermen after Vimy Ridge. Also at Vimy the futre of suad level warfare, rolling barrages just ahead of the infantry, and of course the tanksquad. This squad level fighting was introduced by the Canadian/American philanthropist (I cannot remember his name) paid for and supplied the equipment to do so, I think it was the invention of machine gun and rifle squads; groups of seven men per squad, and the command structure to go with it.

Not to get off topic but I agree with you but I don't, I can see the American entrance as a FINAL DECIDING FACTOR but not the winning one, as I have tried to present in the earlier paragraph.

Now the idea of having the USA come in on Germany's side is a new one to me, remeber though the Japanese were very, very close friends with the Brits back then.
Wow I never thought anything seriously in those terms. Hey sounds like a 'what if thread' for you to moderate, how civilized of you to volunteer to monitor it. Hey Roel you have a cherry to bust! Ah hem, sorry I will try harder to resist next time! :lol:

Cheers!

 

Hey Mutant - now that would make an interesting what if!

The result would certainly be no WW2...

Anyway, just to split hairs on your last post:

Well, after the surrender of Russia the Germans gained access to the wheat felds of the Ukraine - the German bread ration went up in 1918.

As had the British & French armies. Why else did the British form 'Bantam Battalions, for example?

 

Indeed? And just how many Americans do you know, cheeky? I mean, really *know* as people. Few, if any, I'd say.

 

Funny, isn't it when people side with the points, I base on my research and post such credentials, there is criticism from an American. Yet I have stated that I have a large portion of my family in the USA, some born there, some moved there, and they ALL AGREE that the USA, in general, believe they won WW I, WW2 all by themselves is nothing more than blind arrogance.
For example. During the American war in the Pacific Canadian armed forces occupied American soil to defend it for the USA, against the Imperial Japanese forces. In fact I would like to know how many Canadians you know Corp? Not too many eh!

As in Europe and growing in Canada, we just shake our heads and wonder how great the USA could be if only its citizens realized they are part of a gobal community, and that the word international relations begins with the next country over, not the next state.
On that last point the eastern seaboard, Ottawa, has finaly realized that BC and Alberta are part of Canada, not just Ontario and Quebec; from my AMERICAN RELATIVES it seems that some feel the same way in the states. But then thats off topic for this thread.

 

Here is a link to back up what I have said, once again Corp I present my facts on this matter. Please post yours.

You mean these Bantams?
http://www.1914-1918.net/whatbantam.htm

http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/projects/j ... chron.html

By the way here is yet another source that states the USA when it entered the first world war that they TIPPED THE BALANCE not won the war for the Allies, which has been my whole point.

 

Hurrah mon ami.

Although Probably not could be a maybe.

Any soldier or army would welcome allies to fight with no matter the circumstances.

WW1 could have gone any way of 3 atalemate, allied or German victory. It would have all be down to luck.

As in WW2 the allied victory was assured witht the help of the septics, but not a sole war winner.

 

havnt got the hang of this quote thiing?

anyway wot tryin to say is

i know quite a few americans as i lived in miami 4 a year 1987-88, wot your qualification?

 

Off topic

When you click "quote", you get the normal post message screen but with the quoted message between a [ quote ] marker and a [/ quote ] marker. You can type your message anywhere in, above or below the quote. When you post, only the part between [ quote ] and [/ quote ] will be presented as a quote, including whatever you may have typed there.

 

Now that is a fact, in regards of the human mindset. The victor in each war has been the writer of the popular belief systems of any culture.
Good post!

Cheers!

 

thanks roel

 

That's what I was saying; perhaps I didn't choose my words correctly. The arrival of the AEF did, I believe, keep the Allies from either *losing* the war, or having to accept a stalemate. Given another year of fighting, the Americans might well have won the war for the Allies, as by then American industrial production would have had much equipment pouring across the ocean, along with even more troops than had been sent over previously.

 

I think it would be fair to say that America achieved its biggest effect on the battlefields of WW1 merely by turning up. It was a physiological body blow to the Germans to shift from facing mutually exhausted foes to facing tens of thousands of fresh troops.

In most wars a country reaches physiological breaking point well before it reaches physical exhaustion. WW2 Germany is one of the big exceptions.

 

Yeah, really; we had to overrun Germany completely in order to get them to give up. Then, because it was largely assumed that the same thing would happen with Japan, the decision was made to deploy the atomic bombs.

 

Now that I can agree with, besides after the battles for Vimy Ridge the entire German line was begining to crumble. When the Americans became officially ready to commence operations, hey we all need at least some war making equipment, the Germans realized that there was no way for them to actually win the war, especially with the civil unrest mounting in Germany proper.

 

Interesting question:

could the UK have made better use of the Empire/Commonwealth?

We owned around 1/4 of the world - surely some of that manpower could be used somewhere. Indian, Austrlian, Canadian and Gurkha troops were used (Indians & Gurkhas in small numbers), as were 'native' colonial troops in the African campaigns, and an awful lot of Chinese labourers were employed on the Western Front.

But could we not have used Canada as our arsenal, and India as our army? Would this have oblivitated the 'need' for the USA's involvement?
Obviously there were certain hurdles to this.
One is the underlying racism inherant in the Empire, that 'these foriegn chappies' were not as good as te English'.
The other is the fact that having a large body of trained soldiers in the Indian population would be a potential security nightmare.

 

wot do u mean we???

 

As memory serves the 'white' parts of the empire sent over substanial numbers of men. New Zealand in particular sent a very serious percentage of their working age men to fight. I think Africa did see the deployment of large numbers of 'non white' troops and the numbers killed and wounded rivaled those of the western front however you hear very little about it.

I would imagine that post war security was a limiting factor in the use of 'native' troops. Certainly the British authorities were worried enough about their own men coming up with revolutionary type ideas. Hense the desire to get them out of uniforms and into demob suits.

As to using Canada as an arsenal traditionally the empire supplied the raw materials and Britain, the workshop of the world, turned them into finished goods. Did any parts of the empire have major industrial capacity at that point?