Worst General Of WW2

"As tensions in Europe escalated, and war seemed imminent, Enigma intercepts increased from a few to a few hundred a day. In 1939, Operation Ultra charged cryptologists with breaking the Enigma code and devising a rapid means of transcribing the intercepts."

Ultra, Operation: Information from Answers.com

and from wiki;

"The first decryption of a wartime Enigma message was achieved by the Poles at PC Bruno on 17 January 1940, albeit one that had been transmitted three months earlier. Little had been achieved by the start of the Allied campaign in Norway in April. At the start of the Battle of France on 10 May 1940, the Germans made a very significant change in the indicator procedures for Enigma messages. However, the Bletchley Park cryptanalysts had anticipated this, and were able—jointly with PC Bruno—to resume breaking messages from 22 May, although often with some delay. The intelligence that these messages yielded was of little operational use in the fast-moving situation of the German advance.
Decryption of Enigma traffic built up gradually during 1940, with the first two prototype bombes being delivered in March and August. The traffic was almost entirely limited to Luftwaffe messages. By the peak of the Battle of the Mediterranean in 1941, however, Bletchley Park was deciphering daily 2,000 Italian Hagelin messages. By the second half of 1941 30,000 Enigma messages a month were being deciphered, rising to 90,000 a month of Enigma and Fish decrypts combined later in the war.[6]

In April 1940, Ultra information provided a detailed picture of the disposition of the German forces, and then their movement orders for the attack on the Low Countries prior to the Battle of France in May."

That aside, Gort's first mission was to do whatever the French told him, it was only after the retreat had already begun that the neccessity of 'saving' the BEF became a distinct probability.

He does deserve to be considered, for sure, but his later performances weren't bad, especially in Malta, and the thing that he could most be criticised for IMO is being too old - WW1 was his war. His greatest achievements were probably his campaigning for more funds for the Army in the run up to ww2, having been apparently one of the few allied commanders to appreciate the difference that taking Czechoslovakia made to German ground strength. He didn't succeed as much as was needed, but he helped quite a bit.

IMO not deserving to be on the list of 'worsts'

 

What is the poor country in second war, French or Itally,I think.


A joy,why the France army like surrender?
Q: How do you call the held up the hands of thousands of French people?
A: Of course the French Army.
问：如何称呼同时举起双手的十万法国人？
答：当然是法国陆军。
Q: How can the French win the British?
A: They need for women as commander. (Referring to Joan of Arc)
问：法国人如何才能战胜英国人？
答：需要在女性的统帅下。（指圣女贞德）
Q: Why the French First Empire almost invincible?
A: Because their king was a foreigner. (Napoleon was a Corsican.)
问：为什么法兰西第一帝国几乎所向无敌？
答：因为他们的国王是外国人。（拿破仑是科西嘉人。）
Q: How can we identify a French soldier?
A: Just look at his arm on the line, where they sunning is healthy.
问：怎样才能辨认出一名法国老兵？
答：只要看看他的腋下就行了，他们那里被太阳晒得很健康。
Q: Why do so many in France, the boulevard?
A: Because Germans like to march in the shade,
问：为什么在法国有那么多的林荫大道？
答：因为德国人喜欢在树荫下行军，
Q: Why Germany in World War II took three days to conquer France?
Answer: because it was raining.
问：为什么在二战中德国用了三天时间才征服法国？
答：因为当时在下雨。
Q: Why did the French Statue of Liberty will be presented to the United States?
A: Because she only had one arm is raised.
问：法国人为什么会将自由女神像赠给美国？
答：因为她只有一只胳膊是举起来的。
Q: Why do French people always get many votes at the United Nations?
A: Because they are always put hands in the air.
问：为什么法国人总是能在联合国那里获得很多投票？
答：因为他们总是举双手。
Q: Why are the French fighter named "Mirage"?
A: Because they do not exist.
问：为什么法国的战斗机都被命名为“幻影”？
答：因为它们根本就不存在。
Q: "Maginot" mean in German?
A: Welcome, welcome.
问：“马奇诺”在德语中是什么意思？
答：欢迎欢迎，热烈欢迎。
Q: Why do we always said the French Foreign Legion is the most authentic troops in French amry?
A: It should be composed by foreigners entirely.
问：为什么我们总说法国外籍兵团是整个法国军队中最正牌的部队？
答：应为它全部是由外国人组成的。
Q: Who can tell me what it look like the French flag in the end?
A: The white flag is painted on the side of the two color patterns.
问：谁能跟我说说法国国旗到底是什么样子？
答：就是在一面白旗上涂上两条彩纹
Q: What the world's most brief books ?
A: Yes, a book about the French war hero.
问：世界上最为简短的书是什么书？
答：是有关法国战争英雄的书。
Q: Why should the French won the 1998 World Cup will celebrate so crazy?
A: Because it was their first time without the help of external forces won a thing. Oh, sorry, I forget Zidane is Algerian.
问：为什么法国人在赢得了1998年世界杯冠军后会欢庆得如此疯狂？
答：因为那是他们第一次在没有外部力量的帮助下赢得的一件东西。噢，对不起，我忘记了齐达内是阿尔及利亚人 。
Q: Why do the French like to use Navy ships with a transparent glass bottom?
A: In order to better see their warships.
问：为什么法国海军喜欢使用带有透明玻璃船底的战舰？
答：为了能够更好地看清他们的战舰。
Q: When the German army into the city what the mayor of Paris say to the Germans?
A: Do you need for one hundred thousand tables, gentlemen?
问：当德国军队进城时巴黎市长对德军都说了些什么？
答：需要十万张桌子吗，先生们？
Q: Why are the French afraid of war?
A: God, ah, ah they are all afraid of war, if they never win it!
问：法国人为什么害怕战争？
答：上帝啊，谁不害怕战争啊，如果一次也没赢的话！
Q: How to stop a French army on a horse?
A: As long as the merry-go-off on the line.
问：如何在马背上阻挡住一支法国军队？
答：只要把旋转木马关了就行了。
Q: As a Frenchman who is the greatest benifit for?
A: You can surrender when war was declared, and then ally will help you win the war.
问：作为一名法国人的最大好处是什么？
答：你可以在战争打响的时候就投降然后别人会帮你赢得这场战争。
Q: If the French sell out to the remaining World War II rifles, what are their ads word ?
A: "The new, never fire, only to be thrown on the ground once."
问：如果法国人要专卖掉二战时期的剩余步枪，他们的广告词是什么？
答：“全新，从来没开过火，仅仅被扔到地上一次。”

 

The world war two is biggist conventional war in human history

 

to try and capitalise on those interesting contributions, it occurs to me that nobody has considered any Chinese Generals yet - Tang Shengzhi's disastrous defence and retreat from Nanking , coupled with his rather unfair demand that all his officers sign the general retreat order to cover his A makes him a definite candidate. Ok he did inherit a poor situation, but he definitely made it worse rather than better.

 

Churchill was a pretty poor Defence Minister (IMO) who contributed to several British screw ups (Greece, Singapore etc) so his judgement on military matters is rather suspect.

I can't see how that would be the responsibility of Gort though. His responsibility is to inform the British government that his best (& perhaps only) option was to withdraw. The government should then either order the BEF to stand firm (and likely be destroyed), or else to inform the French government.
As subordinate to the French command he cannot "inform" a superior officer, it needs to be the British government to inform the French that the BEF is no longer available to them, and will be moving forthwith to withdraw.

From reading accounts it's not clear that George's HQ was not informed, but with the chaos in French leadership (both military & political) it's not surprising that things were confused.


If any military men are eligible for the "worst" and not just field commanders, I think Kulik & Mcnair should get a mention for it, with Kulik being perhaps the worst example of a high ranking idiot.

Grigory Kulik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Good point bringing up Kulik - had forgotten him but but he definitely deserves to be on the list - as a military man and as a leader he was bad by almost every standard, and perhaps he has more blame to take than Voroshilov for some of the early Finland disasters.

 

At one point in time I might have agreed about McNair but based on some of the more recent discussions I'm inclined not to now.

 

The only thing I think justifies McNair's inclusion is that he liked and supported Fredendall, which is on reflection a good enough reason. Himself, his failures were more to do with developing new doctrine the way it could on paper quickest be implemented rather than the best way. Not something he was unique for.

 

I thought Marshall had his little black book that governed all senior promotions in the US Army, so any corps/army commander had to pass his scrutiny.

 

Not sure if you mean we should include Marshall in the list? or were you just commenting on the posts about McNair? I personally think Marshall shouldn't be a candidate, solely because in both world wars he was more administrative than anything else. It doesn't mean he wasn't influential, but especially in WW2 his influence was so wide that any failures and successes laid at his door probably balance out. If he had been a disaster, we'd know more about it...

 

I think Marshall was a fine general. Only that you can not blame McNair alone for Fredendall. The only general outside of Marshall's influence might be MacAuther, who was a ledgend in the army (pre-war)

 

Agree totally - Fredendall wasn't any one man's fault, except perhaps his father's

 

I agree with Ulrich I dont like Clark I strongly dont like that guy he let pride and fame get in the way of the well being of his troops thousands of GIs died because of him and only for 1 day of fame.

 

Not sure if we should include Admirals in this thread, as it's not so easy to draw comparisons, but Robert Ghormley might be a good US candidate;

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA325157&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
(page 5)

, or Jack Fletcher perhaps

Frank Jack Fletcher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The British had Victor Crutchley, but his main failings were one badly timed decision at Guadalcanal rather than general incompetence.

In naval matters though one bad decision can tend to have much greater consequences than on land, and intelligence was often much less able to give details, so it isn't so easy to judge.

 

Not sure if we should include Admirals in this thread, as it's not so easy to draw comparisons, but Robert Ghormley might be a good US candidate;

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA325157&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
(page 5)

, or Jack Fletcher perhaps

Frank Jack Fletcher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The British had Victor Crutchley, but his main failings were one badly timed decision at Guadalcanal rather than general incompetence.

In naval matters though one bad decision can tend to have much greater consequences than on land, and intelligence was often much less able to give details, so it isn't so easy to judge.

Oh and also Hi Sam

 

If we exclude Marshall, as I think we should, because he was administrative, does that not excuse Keitel and Goring? Should we limit this to corps/army/army group commanders? A few US divisional commanders were sacked after only a few weeks, something I'm sure happened in other army's as well. Perhaps a seperate Worst admiral thread?

 

I'm thinking the best way to judge eligibility should be 'did they ever get their boots dirty' and if they did, how much worse things were because of it.

Personally I think Goering's out, although he is one of the better candidates if included - Keitel not so certain of - he was after all a military man first and not really a politician, but though I accept he could be excluded on grounds of no actual field command he was in charge of planning most of Germany's operations. Hard to be sure how much he actually inputted though, but the fact Hitler never let him go when he resigned makes me think he played a pretty big part in everything.

not an easy line to draw, so maybe we should keep it simple and say if they had an actual, rather than honorary military rank, and thus commanded actual formations, and they weren't an actual national leader at the time of their biggest mistakes, they're in the pot.

open to opinions

 

Though very different men in charecter, you could easily substitute Marshall-Roosevelt for Keitel-Hitler for the duties preformed Marshall never held a field command and was vital to American-Allied planning. Certainly had Germany won Marshall would be considered a 'Allied war criminal' as Keitel was, though of course he (Keitel) truely deserved it.

 

that's a whole 'nother 'what if' thread, although probably been hashed out before - can't be bothered to look right now but if not, might be one for the future

 

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread. As for the other thread, I predict an interesting and short thread