Worst WW2 movies ever made?

No, he sounded passionate. He had a bee in his bonnet and I believe confabulated real events he was at with imaginary events.

Yes he did.

The problem always was that Belton went entirely by memory, from interactions with other 3d AD veterans at reunions, and probably by prodding from his ghost writer. Neither Belton or his ghostwriter did any research in actual unit records. Neither one were aware apparently of the basic development histories by Dick Hunnicutt...IIRC Belton had no clue who he was when I mentioned his name.

I actually devote a chapter in For Purpose of Service Test to the mythos created by Death Traps.

 

It should be treated as a memoir, not as a history work. I think if a military historian can filter out the stuff Cooper didn't have direct experience with it can give some useful info.

 

My way was not a very Worthy movie, the only thing that really impressed me was the BT tank mock ups pretty decent looking too bad the couldn't get the running gear right. Found out they used the FV432 as the base chassis. The most expensive picture ever made in Korea 24 million. The world box office was 16.6 million. Ouch didn't even pay for its self. I always love it when they advertise true story didn't they say the true story of the Memphis Bell and the most accurate and realistic. My buddy and I wanted to see it and were like that wasn't even close to the real story but the true story would have been unexciting and probably boring

 

That is why they always say...Based on a true story.

No, the film has very little to do with the actual last mission of the Memphis Belle, what is shown in the film is an amalgam of the crew's experiences in their 25 missions wrapped up into 1 mission.

The film was co-produced by William Wyler's daughter, Catherine. For those who don't know, William Wyler directed the original Memphis Belle documentary.

 

War movies are like Marvel´s movies: lots of heroes that never die.

Finnish example. A caption where Finns escape when they are surrounded by the Red Army soldiers: And every bullet kills.

 

I found some more info about the T26E4 and that episode on the Tanks Encyclopedia website: https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/us/t26e4-super-pershing
This veritable Frankenstein of a tank was only recorded to have been in action twice. The first action took place between Weser and Nordheim where it destroyed an unidentified armored target.
The second action comes with slightly more detail. In the city of Dessau, on April 21, 1945, as the 3rd Armored Division advanced, the tank was engaged by what was widely believed to be a Tiger II. The enemy tank fired one shell at the Super Pershing which ricocheted. The Pershing returned fire, penetrating the lower plate of the Panzer, causing the ammunition to explode and the turret to fly off. This story was told by Gunner Cpl. J. Erwin, and has been scrutinized over the years as to its authenticity.
For one, the nearest Tiger II equipped unit was the SS 502nd Heavy Panzer Battalion and was 70 miles from Dessau. Second, as many larger German tanks were mistakenly named Tigers by the Allies, it is highly likely that it wasn’t a Tiger at all, some reports stating that was merely a Panzer IV.
Regardless of the accuracy of the report of this action, it was the tank’s only. After the war, the vehicle ended up in the Tank Dump at Kassel in Germany. It was photographed there in June 1945

I doubt that it was even a Panzer IV, I have read that the divisional records only reported some infantry and artillery in Dessau. If this episode occurred at all maybe it could have been some kind of SP gun. It is also strange that the account of the engagement mentions that the German vehicle moved forward over a pile of rubble, exposing its belly. This seems a suicidal tactic, even for an inexperienced crew.

 

The "record" for these events exist solely in the postwar memoirs of Belton Cooper and John Irwin (not Erwin). There is zero mention of any engagements by the lone T26E4 in the 3d AD AAR or the 33d AR AAR, and in fact zero mention of the T26E4 issued to Company I. The "Tiger" moving "forward" and exposing its belly appears to be borrowed from or possibly conflated with the encounter between T26E3 "Fireball" Serial Number 38 of Company F, 33d AR on 26 February 1945.

 

I think this blog gives a good idea of the conditions in which the German were fighting in April 1945: CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN COMET - The Tiger Collection

This video gives a detailed description of the encounter with the Comets:


According to one of the Britons present, Lt Langdon, the 77mm gun was no match for the Tiger I: "Head on, as it was to us, we could not hope to knock it out". We don't know if those Comets had APDS rounds, but I thought that at normal distances even the APCBC would have been able to take the Tiger I on the front, especially on the hull.

 

I'm going to re-ignite this thread.

"Heartbreak Ridge" was recommended to me by a friend. On his say so, I sat down to watch it, hoping to be enthralled.

But I was non-plussed.

American soldiers climbing up a gigantic cargo net attached to a cliff to take a ridge against Japanese soldiers too stupid to run forward and unattach the net every night so that the Americans could not climb up to the ridge at all?

Were they SERIOUS?

I know that war films can't necessarily be historically accurate, but was the depiction of that cargo net and it's continued attachment for assault after assault REALLY meant to be taken in all seriousness?

 

Hacksaw Ridge.

The real cargo net photo here.
Hacksaw Ridge vs the True Story of Desmond Doss, Medal of Honor

 

Why didn't the Japanese simply destroy the attachment for the net?

What sort of idiots would allow multiple assaults up the same net every time?

Were the Japanese simply morons?

 

As someone else noted, the Desmond Doss movie is "Hacksaw Ridge" not "Heartbreak Ridge". I agree it's not very good. "Heartbreak Ridge" is a 1986 film where Clint Eastwood portrays a Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant and Medal of Honor recipient. He leads his men in the Grenada Invasion and it isn't very good movie either. "Pork Chop Hill" is a 1959 film that takes place in Korea, and stars Gregory Peck. It's pretty good. Worth a watch.

 

Gyrostabilisers.....

As a player of Avalon Hills SQUAD LEADER series, one of the gamette expansions, GI ANVIL OF VICTORY had a rule that introduced gyrostabilisers to the game system.

But one of the suprising facts in the rule by rule designers notes was that Allied tank crews often left their stabilizer equipment unused, because of the complexities of operation and their lack of training in its use to achieve a "fire on the move" result.

So, for all its technological advancement and benefits, most crews simply stopped to fire anyway.

Basic fact from a wargamer.

So complaints about firing on the move in FURY are probably valid, but they are very late war tank crews and have probably mastered the complexities of their gyrostabiliser equipment by this late stage of the conflict

 

Is it the only reason why you don't like the movie or there are other issues? I haven't watched it.

 

It wasn't the only reason, but it was the principal reason why this film failed to inspire.

The whole project was so much melodrama, with the medics unit looking wide eyed at their "saviour" like he was some kind of reincarnation of Christ almighty!

And the Hollywoodisation of the story turned it into a very slow moving film. I wasn't really interested in his love life or lack of visitation based on whatever. The whole project seemed to revolve around a script that featured nothing in the way of immortal dialogue. Nor were the action scenes terribly inspiring either.

I found the whole thing to be UNDERWHELMING, and not worthy of the shining testimonial that lured me to put my money down in the first place.

 

The remake of the Bogart classic, Sahara, with Jim Belushi, ranks right up there with the worst of the worst.

 

I actually thought the original (Bogart) was quite good, I agree with you about the Belushi remake.

 

One of my favorites. The acting was superb.

 

I don’t think anyone played or has played the anti hero better than him. African Queen, Sahara, Casablanca, etc.