Your favorite Modern tank

The DU replaced tungsten not ceramic. Just because you change something doesn't make it better. The British are also repainting their tanks constantly, so by adding layers of paint, we are making it slightly stronger. There we go, another improvement.

 

Grieg, I think you have forgotten your own post: sun Feb 27, 2005 5:47 am....you can find it on page 3, here you started it all by talking about the best armourd corps and armoured combat

"Most of you fail to grasp my point. Armored combat in RL does not take place in a vacuum. One versus one single combat is not what you would be dealing with. Just as logistics are a crucial component of modern warfare yet are seldom if ever discussed or appreciated in such discussion forums one should be aware of all the military infrastructue and support needed to keep an armored division in the field.
How many armored Corps can any of these European countries you are referring to deploy? How many Air Groups will be available? What kind of transport is available and how will the massive supply lines be maintained and protected?
To take one weapon system like the Abrams and attempt to isolate it and compare it to weapons systems of other countries, while ignoring all the supporting weapons systems and logistics is silly IMO.
MBTs are not sent out alone. They are surrounded by support units, accompanied by recon units, protected by air assets, and they need command and control to cordinate all these assets."

and

"Know of any other superpowers at the moment?
That brings me back to my main point. It takes another superpower to oppose one militarily. Any country that takes on the US armed forces head on is going to get clobbered. That is just a fact.
The best they can hope for is to melt into the hills or hide in the civilian populace and try and wait them out, hoping that the political situation back home will change. That tactic can sometimes work for insurgents and guerillas but not for nations."

and

"Tanks are just one part of the picture. US Armored Divisions (and all that entails) are without doubt the best in the world. No serious military analyst can dispute that when the whole picture is looked at."

and you also had a post at Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:07 am
"The thing about tanks that isn't apparent (and isn't sexy) is the whole command/ control/ communication infrastructure that goes with it. The M1A2s computerized digital link hookup and the air recon assets (not to mention satellite recon) that support it through the US military is second to none in the world. In fact no other country comes anywhere close in being able to call on those kinds of assets. An insurgency or guerilla conflict isn't where the MBT really shines. If a country had to field multiple armored Corps in opposition to the US forces none of the countries MBTs mentioned would live long enough to make a difference.
Sorry if this sounds arrogant but it is simply a fact."

And this was before I started on this topic

You said The US military is second to none in the world, my point is: that depends on what you shall use it for and I gave some examples and one of them was peace-keeping since that is something armies this days do...
so I cant see your problem on the peace-keeping is coming up and all the other things, you started it you self

and btw: I like the Leopard 2A5/A6 and The M1A2 Abrams

 

Can we bang our collective heads on a wall for so long?

What are you guys even debating now?

Ok, this is the 'Your Favourite Modern Tank' topic. Personally, I liked the Challenger I best - the Challenger II just looks ugly in comparison. Abrams, Leopard, LeClerc, all look 'slabby' in comparison. The T-90 is good looking, but hey. The latest 'Black Eagle' just looks like a Conqueror that has been sat on.
Can you tell that my favourite is based on looks?

On a deeper level, I'd probably go for the Chally 2 or the Leo. The Abrams is too wasteful of fuel, the LeClerc I don't really know about... The T-90... Nah.

P.S: for a discussion on armies, try here: http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1492

 

Ricky, you keep mispelling Leclerc....

 

Is the C not a capital?
My apologies.

 

I hadn't forgotten my previous posts just have changed focus somewhat as I was chastened for not staying on topic. I didn't mention the present sitaution in Iraq or peacekeeping or Kosovo or Somalia or any other situation that related to geopolitics and controversy over US policies.. but had nothing to do with MBT's. The things I did mention (for the most part) as I explained repeatedly did have to do with war fighting capability..combined arms doctrine..of which the MBT is an integral but only one part of the picture.
I've grown weary of this debate and thinbk perhaps it has more to do with nationalism and pride than with the qualities of MBT's thus we can agree to disagree. Little more of substance can I think be debated on this topic.

 

Grieg this isnt to be rude, but your the one who smells abit to much of National pride here !

This topic is about wich is your favorite tank and why ! And not wich is your favorite army ! Sure the U.S. has a big army, but that doesnt mean they have all the best equipment, not at all ! The Abrams is not the only tank with GPS and the ability to call for help when in a tough-spot, that is generally an ability of every modern MBT. The difference is that the U.S. military is twice the size of its biggest adversary, and thereby the worlds biggest military-power !

You would be surprised how much military equipment-designs and tactics the U.S. have borrowed from Europe over the last century !

KBO

 

Correction of a minor point only since I have also decided it is pointless to continue with this topic.
The DU did indeed replace ceramic plates set in resin and sandwiched between steel plates ..of course now we are discussing classified information and not publicly available data

 

Et voilà, this is the nationalist pride Grieg is talking about!

I'm afraid the division between "Europe" and "America" on this forum or any other can barely be avoided. What we must seek is to base our statements on facts and not on sentiments. This goes for everyone here.

Ricky: Leclerc is indeed two words, "le clerc" = the clerk as far as I know, but as names grow they just removed the capital. American names with the same background do retain their middle capital often (DuVal, and whatnot).

 

No no no ! That was a wake-up-call, not national pride !

The French tank Leclerc, is named after the French General Leclerc, thats where the name originates from.

KBO

 

Where I get my information:

Ofcourse i get nformation from websites, other forums and people that work as a tankcrew and people that work on the mechanical part of the tank, I can give you pictures from the inside ofthe add-on hollow armor on the Leopard, I also got a picture where you can see the full lenght of the L/55

But now i'm going ''off-topic'', so I suggest that you make a new topic about the US and its so called ''super digital supporting units/capability's''

 

That much I knew. But I thought that it was LeClerc, not Leclerc. In English surnames, we tend to keep such capitals - deHaviland is a nice example!

 

Assuming this to be correct ,by removing a substance which is there to absorb impact you replace it with a more dense substance hence transferring the shock faster through the medium.

 

I really like the Stridsvagn 122 (Leopard 2A5)
http://www.haaland.info/sweden/tank/index.html

 

Yeah its looks lke a great tank!

Grieg:

Look at the pictures on the rght of this link, don't say other tanks don't have that ''GPS'' work-alike system

http://www.mss.mil.se/article.php?id=2123


Look at the second link for some really good STRV-122 pictures

http://www.plasticwarfare.com/articles/122/main_en.asp

 

Here you can read a little about the swedish army trial, where they tested the Leopard 2A5, the M1A2 Abrams and the Leclerc
http://www.wendel.se/rswa/strv122.htm

 

Very nice Jens !

Especially that last link, it is clear that even the Leopard 2A5 is as good as the M1A2 Abrams, and even costs less !.

Best regards, KBO.

 

Exactly the same as in the M1A2:

 

Funny that all the same people who previously decided it was pointless to continue this debate continue tirelessly to spur it on.

That is nothing but a simple GPS system..you can get one like that in your automobile if you like

 

OMG, keep believing the M1A2 is more special than other tanks :lol: