What is going on in Washington???

A caller on a Boston talk show yesterday had the best reason so far as to why these people were getting shot:
"Did you ever stop to consider," he said,
"that perhaps they had it coming?"
Unreal.

 

Knight, did they trace the call of this fool ?

also didn't a government a/c of some sort with high tech surveillance gear and tech crew come to the police aid ? hmmmmmmm, this is getting stranger with each new day.

E

 

He can't be French, because he would have surrendered by now. So, throw that theory out.
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This thing is getting so preposterous... I can't believe anything they're putting out: I'm sorry. I would really like to take part in the "psychological profile" discussions, and such, but the whole thing just doesn't make any sense at all. He gave the police a phone number so they could call him? $10M wired to a secret bank account? Messages appearing on trees.
Tarot card/s saying "Don't report this to the Press," and "other things" which they can't reveal to us. Next, we're going to be hearing about those sharks with the laser beam guns attached to their heads, which Dr. Evil wanted to get.

 

Knight, I just haven't seen anything besides the location that suggests some organized group. I would not be suprised if the killer claimed some political motivation... I guess. But if he (meaning most likely two men) was representing some group, why act so damn crazy? And what do the events of the previous year have to do with these killings?

from the news tonight...
"The police have the sniper like a duck in a noose"???
"Contacting other jurisdictions"?
Searches in Washington state?
frustrated at an inability to communicate???

This stuff makes more sense every hour...


Obviously, there is a whole lot of information that the authrities have that they are not releasing...

Erich, there was talk (not sure if it was acted on) of using a couple army aircraft with hi tech surveillance gear in the hunt.

Knight, a question- isn't believing nothing they put out just as ignorant as believing everything?

[ 23 October 2002, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ]

 

I don't know if you remember the Vietnam War, but, the government was lying to us just about everything. And the further back you go in the history of the war, the crazier things got. Tonkin Gulf was the "Washington Sniper" of the Vietnam War. It was a total fabrication.
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OK... I can't give you a good answer about the Sniper: it's just unbelievable.

 

and... if you believe everything the government has to say--you don't question them at all--then you will obey them blindly, also; and, this is worse.

 

This DC sniper thing is getting out of hand. I get the feeling the police are really baffled on this one. Their profilers are probably going round the twist trying to figure this guy out.

For my money, I say it all started out as a grudge against either "Society" in general or just "The Government". Then when the cops failed to catch the guy(s) responsible, it turned into a cat and mouse game, making the cops look like fools. Then when the media started to really get into the act, the guy(s) responsible started to like their "15 minutes of fame", and started to play not only with the police (the tarot card) but the media (catch me if you can). Now, all of a sudden, someone's mentioned "Money" and the sniper(s) have thought "Hey, lets make them (Society/The Government) really pay for what they've done to me (us).

And you know the scariest thing??? If they pay the money, this will happen again and again all over the place.

After the great OJ Simpson slow speed chase on the LA freeways was televised live, the incidence of slow speed police chases on the freeways of America has increased. The reason?? It gives you a chance to wave at the media choppers while you're being chased by a dozen police cars. It's your "15 minutes of fame", and it doesn't matter if you get caught later, at least you got to be on TV.

Same thing will happen if they pay money to this murderer. Someone else will do the same thing. There is unfortunately always someone else out there willing to do a copy cat, especially where the media and money are concerned.

I only hope they catch this thing (I am really reluctant to call it a person) who's been killing these innocent people, long before any money changes hands. Does Washington have the death penalty?? Maybe they could transfer him/them to a state that does.

__________________________

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
- Plato (427-347 B.C.)

 

Exactly my point, Knight... one has to find the median.

Well, two people arrested. Sounds like they've been onto this John Allen Mohammed guy for a few days now.
We'll see where this goes...
So far, it sounds like the anti-government motivation is it. I've heard a couple mentions about this guy "sympathizing" with the 9/11 terrorists.
And it sounds like this guy (if he is the sniper?) did have military training- I think I heard that he's a gulf war vet as well.
Of course, I doubt his 17-year-old stepson (??) had very much training... I wonder how that angle will work out.

See what happens...

 

We know that they now MAYBE have the killers. Nothing more than that. We'll probably know more if nobody gets shot for over a week.

This sounds very much like the general consensus here - a pair of nutcases with a vague political motive.

 

This will be the best test... considering the pace the sniper has been working at, rarely waiting more than a day or so between attacks, I think that if the attacks stop with these guys in custody then that paints a pretty clear picture.

these were among snippets from the cnn story on the captures...

But according to the news this morning, the Alabama thing has already been proven NOT to be sniper-related.

Have to see how this goes...

 

Yes... we'll see.
So, the Sniper says, "If you don't think I'm serious, ask the people in Montgomery."
So, Moose $ Co. go to Montgomery, AL, pick up the trail of a .223 murder down there and the next day catch the Sniper.
Was the Sniper really that much of an idiot?


[ 24 October 2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Knight Templar ]

 

I know what to say about the Sniper. They are caught!

They will easily be able to link the rifle to the killings if that is indeed the rifle.
Linked to the house in Washington State where apparently one of the men did target practice on a stump while staioned at the military base there. This has got to be the Sniper...just like i said, 2 people, one probably shooting one driving

But we have to keep watching now...all sorts of evidence will be getting uncovered now! I'm sure the media will ride this case to trial. Plus since the men were taken alive we're going to see what the motivation was and such.
Sad thing is...poor Gulf war veterens...this is the second major domestic terrorist who was a Gulf War Vet. sad

[ 24 October 2002, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Ron ]

 

Yeah... the operative word here is "easily."
After the Press blare out that everyone from the CIA to McGruff The Crime Dog are searching for a blue Chevy Caprice with xxxxx license plate, etc. all over the place, these guys go to sleep at a highway rest stop with the rifle in the trunk.
Good thing they had their radio turned off, otherwise they might have suspected something.
The cops are withholding ALL THIS INFORMATION, but the most important information--the # and description of the car--they hand out to every radio and TV station in the country.
Next, we're going to hear that they found a map in the glove compartment with all of the "hit" sites circled in red, along with their Al Kaeda pledge pins and secret decoder ring.

 

I certainly hope these are people responsible for the killings. But I am a little concernedover how sudden it was. It seems like those men, who allegedly have been eluding law enforcement easily, are suddenly caught, and seemingly with a "smoking" gun if you get my drift. I'm of course not suggesting conspiracy theories, only that the circumstances of this arrest are rather odd.

 

I think it probably seems sudden to us because the police have not been releasing all the info. Fro some of the reports I've read, this is not actually sudden- they've been onto this guy for at least three days. It seems odd that he was just sleeping at a rest stop, but there are some circumstances. For one thing, late that evening the police had set up a roadblock apparently someewhere on the highway relatively close to where the guy was sleeping- he may have been forced to pull over because the cops were nearby.
Also, keep in mind that the media did not release the info on the car until last night, as far as I know. Until this point, everyone has been loking for the white truck. This guy also watches the media, and he probably thought the cops were still looking for the truck, not the car.

I get the idea that although this guy was obviously capable of planning these attacks, he's not the brightest chap. The notes were poorly written, it sounds like he couldn't communicate well.

Also, lots of info is starting to come out about evidence the cops have had for a few days now. I guess they were just not releasing most of the info they had to the media. That's my guess as to why it seems so sudden.

Apparently, dasreich, they weren't eluding law enforcement quite as easily as we/they thought!

 

It's going to get a lot odder.
The Sniper phones the police, saying, "If you don't think I'm serious, check Montgomery..."
So, the cops dig up this killing in Montgomery, AL, instantly trace it to a car, and then catch the guy. That crafty sniper... little did he know that he would eventually trap himself.
Book 'im, Dan-O.

 

This doesn't surprise me...i'm sure we don't know a lot that led police to these people. If these guys are not the Sniper...
1. What in the world do they have a weopon like this in their car! (with a scope i might add)

2. What are they doing with a gun like that sleeping in their car and so far from home?
3. And if clues were given away by the Sniper i wouldn't be surprised...why would he contact police...he was probably getting a kick out of the chase...but he screwed up...just like everyone figured he'd do.
4. I heard there was some sort of gun port in the side of the car..what would THAT be for!

I can't wait to see what the bullet tests say in regard to the gun!

 

-- Ballistic tests on the gun found in the car of the men authorities believe are involved in the Washington-area sniper attacks have matched that weapon to the bullets used to kill 10 people, senior administration officials said Thursday evening.

A Bushmaster .223-caliber rifle, a scope, a tripod and a "sniper platform" were recovered from the suspects' 1990 Chevrolet Caprice, sources said Thursday. The Bushmaster is the civilian version of the Colt-manufactured M-16 used by the U.S. military. They have the same capability, rounds and functions.

All the sniper victims -- 10 dead, three wounded since October 2 -- were hit by a single .223-caliber bullet.

Sources also said that inside the Caprice, the back seat folds down to allow access to the trunk. In the trunk, authorities found the sniper platform, meaning that someone could fold the seat down, open the trunk slightly, shoot from the vehicle, close the trunk and drive away.

Muhammad earned an expert marksmanship badge with the M-16 during his service in the Army, the highest level of expertise given by the military, defense officials at the Pentagon said. That means he had to hit 36 out of 40 targets at a range of about 50 to 300 meters.

 

The latest news from the Washington Post ....

"This guy hung himself with his bravado" by making reference to the Alabama robbery, a law enforcement source said. "The fingerprint from the liquor store is what nailed it and allowed us to tie it all together." - Washington Post, 10-25-01.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14158-2002Oct24.html

Washingtonpost.com

Pair Seized in Sniper Attacks; Gun in Car Tied to 11 Shootings Deadly Siege Apparently Ends After Md. Arrests

Friday, October 25, 2002; Page A01

"... Investigators are just starting to delve into the the background of Muhammad, a Louisiana-born, twice-divorced convert to Islam who, in his 15-year Army career, never rose above a buck sergeant. Malvo, also a focus of intense law enforcement scrutiny, came to the United States from Jamaica by boat as part of a smuggling operation run from Haiti and lived in a homeless shelter in Bellingham, Wash., according to the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

The two apparently met at a nearby YMCA.

Police have been on the lookout not for a person, but vehicles: a white van, a box-shaped delivery truck, a cream-colored Toyota. That now appears to be the main reason why the blue Caprice in which Muhammad and Malvo were caught had earlier failed to attract attention.

Last Thursday, operators staffing police tip lines received a call from a man purporting to be the sniper, sources said. They said the caller claimed responsibility for a robbery and slaying that police later determined had occurred in Montgomery, Ala.

The next day, sources said, a priest contacted authorities to report a strange and disturbing phone conversation he had had. According to law enforcement sources close to the investigation, the priest said that two people had claimed in the phone call that they were involved in the serial sniper attacks. When the priest did not take the claims seriously, sources said, the two revealed they had been involved in a robbery in Montgomery, Ala.

Then last weekend, authorities received a call from someone in Tacoma, Wash., who suspected Malvo could be the sniper. The tipster said Malvo had taken target practice with a gun in the back yard of a Tacoma home.

Members of the task force investigating the sniper attacks contacted authorities in Alabama and quickly learned of a Sept. 21 shooting at a liquor store that left one woman dead and another badly wounded, police in Alabama said.

A fingerprint taken at the store from a magazine about munitions and weapons was traced to Malvo, whose prints were on file with the INS.

'This guy hung himself with his bravado' by making reference to the Alabama robbery, a law enforcement source said. 'The fingerprint from the liquor store is what nailed it and allowed us to tie it all together.'

Investigating Malvo led police to Muhammad.

At 12:47 a.m. yesterday -- after police released a photo of Muhammad and a description of his car -- a motorist in Maryland called Frederick County authorities to report a car matching that description was parked at a rest stop on westbound Interstate 70 in Frederick County, said Maj. Greg Shipley, a Maryland State Police spokesman.

By 1 a.m., a helicopter was landing at Richard Montgomery High School off Route 355 in Montgomery County. A group of FBI agents and Montgomery County officers in black SWAT gear climbed into the helicopter and headed toward Frederick.

Awaiting the SWAT teams, police in Frederick blocked the entrance and exit to the rest stop. Around 3:30 a.m., SWAT officers surrounded the car and took Muhammad and Malvo into custody.

According the Shipley, the two did not resist arrest. However, a law enforcement source said that when several officers approached the car, they shattered two of the car's windows. The arrest was accompanied by 'a ton of screaming,' the source said, though it was unclear by whom.

Muhammad, a native of Baton Rouge, La., was born John Allen Williams on Dec. 31, 1960. He changed his name last year, although he had converted to Islam about the time of his divorce from his first wife 17 years ago.

Muhammad had an encounter with area law enforcement as early as Oct. 2, the day of the first fatal shooting, when he was pulled over by police in Montgomery County, a source said. The next day, when the sniper killed four people in Montgomery County in the morning and another in the District at night, he was stopped by police in the District, the source said.

Computer checks of his New Jersey license tag came up clean, and, since the traffic violations did not warrant arrest, he was allowed to proceed on both occasions, sources said. The tag also was captured by a camera in Fairfax County after the car's driver ran a red light.

A federal law enforcement source said that the Justice Department would oversee the decision-making process on where to prosecute the murder cases.

'It's not who has jurisdiction, but who goes first,' said Gansler, the Montgomery state's attorney. 'The question is really what order people would be prosecuted in. We're all in it together. These people [the snipers] violated the social contract of all of these jurisdictions in a very violent way and should be held accountable in all of the jurisdictions.' ..."

[ 25. October 2002, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: Crapgame ]

 

Yet another mass murder being a long-year U.S. Army vet. Anybody remember Timothy McVeigh and his Army career?

The percentage of homicide and other major crimes against the health commited by gulf war vets is high above the average of other groups of people(well, maybe not the group "L.A. crack dealers" ). Seems a certain portion of that vets are considerably brutalized and lost any common sense on the value of individual life.

Someone earlier wondered about why a "normal" person has such a disrespect in innocent lives, here's the answer: training and experience.

Time for the FBI to have a close look on that group of people to make society a bit more safe.

Cheers,