Iraq vs Israel

Im saying we should not be calling somthing that is strictly volentary to go to a concentration camp,

Incase if you didnt know those nation declared war on Isreael. and Isreael has given much of that land back, and Israel has lost land to "palistinians"

 

Israel is hardly "handicapped," as you say.
They have over 400 nuclear warheads and the third strongest fighting force in the world. Their airforce is superior to any European country's and they use only the most up-to-date technology.
This saga of "Israel fighting for its life" is absolute nonsense. Their military could annihilate ALL the Arab countries over the weekend.

 

I meant they were handycaped in 1948. Isreael did fight for there life, they won. And all these Palistinian areas are in Israels border.

 

Quite untrue. The migration of the Jews started in 1890. They legally bought the land and live was fine until more and more Zionists immigrated to Palisting after WWI where the British mandate took effect. The Zionists believed in self dependance which meant they could only hire Jews to work their land. The Palistinian peasants who were already there working the land were let go and forced to move off the land. The Zionists wanted to speak their own language, do business only with other Jews and was forcing the issue of a homeland. This along with the broken promises of the British is what turned the Palistinians and that region into what it is. The Arabs welcomed the Jews and made every effort to assimilate but the Jews were unresponsive. This is historical fact and cannnot be disputed. So don't blame it on Germany. Every country was anti semitic and now you know why. The Zionists did this in every country.

 

Very much true. This was prior to the creation of Nazism and WWII. It still points to the Jews doing it to themselves. They are not the victims here.

 

There have been some rather interesting arguments presented in this thread.

1st and foremost: Israel is Germany's creation.

Absolutely false. As its been said before, Jews migrated there from many places and the zionists wanted to set up a state there for a while. Also, Israel the country was set up in 1948 with the aid of the British. Germany was occupied at the time, obviously contributing very little to Israels creation.

2nd: Israel is the subject of hate on this forum.

At most ive seen dislike. I certainly have a major problem with Israeli foreign policy and its government in general, but I dont hate the country or its people. And I dont think anyone here really does. At least I hope not.

3rd: Israel is fighting for its life.

Maybe back in '48, but after yankee help they are not in danger of collapsing. But there civillians are in a great deal of danger due to terrorism.

On the subject of Israel versus Iraq, how necessarry is our relationship with Israel? If we were to begin to drop support with them and soften our line Iraq, would the Arab countries offer much more support? And if so, would that cut down on terrorism? I think these are the questions that our president should have asked himself before embarking on this current course to war. As it is, I think it is too late to back out now, at least for Bush. The hole is already too deep.

 

Look in the history. Zionism was created to fight racism in Europe. Jews wanted their own national pride after Hitler diclared them as sub humans. Britain and Jews had a lot of of business contracts so they allowed Jews to buy land in Palestine and never diclaring it a state of Israel. The Zionists had an idea that ones they are in their holy land (Israel) they will be safe from all the racism. After World War II, UN with help from U.S and Bratain created a state called Israel. The only reason why Israel exists today is because of World War II and hatred for the Jews in Western Europe.

[ 07. March 2003, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: VYACHESLAV ]

 

Many in U.N viewed Jews as victims of the Nazi Germany.


Today Germany is helping Israeli Army with their hardware needs, such as tanks.

 

The Jews have always considered modern-day Israel to be a holy place, and the idea of a Jewish state did not start with getting away from Hitler, although that may have sped things along, somewhat. And the UN was correct in ciewing the Jews as victims of Nazi Germany, as 6 million dead can attest too, although millions of Jews died in Russias blood purges as well.

As for Germany supplying hardware, it is in Germanys economic interest to sell its high quality military hardware, and the Israelis have lots of cash. Plus, I dont see how Germany selling stuff to Israel equates into Germanys alleged assistance into the forming of Israel.

 

Russians did kill Jews, but the numbers were not in millions. That was one of the reasons why Trotsky became a communists.

Germany supplies tanks and then turns and says to Israel "Stop killing those poor things"

Hey no tanks no kill

 

Germany is not the only supplier of tanks, they can probably by them a nickel a dozen from Russia. And most of the killing isnt done by tanks. Its inneficient. As far as I know, the Israelis arent buying tanks for the explicit use of killing people.

If not millions, then hundreds of thousands. Point being, the Jews were used to not feeling very welcome in Europe. Hitler just took that a grisly step further. The desire for a Jewish state predated Hitler considerably, as did the plans for making one.

 

Russia and Israel are not friends. Russia supplies Arab nations with weapons so I doubt that Israel would like to have a deal with a dealer who sells weapons to its enemies.

So you say that Israel would of been created without Hitler's help? The racist Europe would of allowed a creation of a Jewish state because they hate them.

I doubt that would happen.

 

Balfour

1917
British Foreign Minister Balfour pledges support for establishment of a "Jewish national home in Palestine".


Thirty years later

1947

UN proposes the establishment of Arab and Jewish states in the Land.

 

After 1917 Britain controlled the region and there was never a word about creating of Jewish state. Yes, Jews from Europe did immigrate but they had to work hard knowing that that land is not their own.

Some History


1918-48 BRITISH RULE

1919-23 Third Aliyah, mainly from Russia
1920 Histadrut (Jewish labor federation) and Haganah (Jewish defense organization) founded.
Vaad Leumi (National Council) set up by Jewish community (yishuv)to conduct its affairs.
1921 First moshav (cooperative village), Nahalal, founded.
1922 Britain granted Mandate for Palestine (Land of Israel) by League of Nations; Transjordan set up on three-fourths of the area, leaving one-fourth for the Jewish national home
Jewish Agency representing Jewish community vis-a-vis Mandate authorities set up.





1924 Technion, first institute of technology, founded in Haifa.
1924-32 Fourth Aliyah, mainly from Poland.
1925 Hebrew University of Jerusalem opened on Mt. Scopus.
1929 Hebron Jews massacred by Arab militants.
1931 Etzel, Jewish underground organization, founded.
1933-39 Fifth Aliyah, mainly from Germany.
1936-39 Anti-Jewish riots instigated by Arab militants.
1939 Jewish immigration severely limited by British White Paper.
1939-45 World War II; Holocaust in Europe.
1941 Lehi underground movement formed; Palmach, strike force of Haganah, set up.
1944 Jewish Brigade formed as part of British forces.
1947 UN proposes the establishment of Arab and Jewish states in the Land.


1948 STATE OF ISRAEL

 

V-slav: http://www.israelshamir.net/english/

 

and?

 

...and there's a lot of information on the past and current history of Israel on Shamir's site.

 

Well, during the 60's Jews from Soviet Union immigrated but wanted to go back to USSR. It was like that until 1989.

 

An interesting side note to this thread is that I read that Israel sends many of it's aircraft to Turkey for heavy maintaince because it is cheaper and they do good work.
Last time I checked Turkey was mostly Muslum.
I guess Israel can get along with some Muslum countries if the price is right.

 

TA 152: Now that's interesting!