Fahrenheit 9/11

Don't be like that - but I guess I know how you feel Americans - we can't even get our own language right ...

Liberal = "Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded."

Can't remember when that became a "bad" thing.

 

Actually that is in a coloquial sense but since most people mean it in a political sense they mean a free trader.

 

Do you think that invading Iraq without the full support of the U.N. first was a mistake? Was the motive for invasion really just oil? Really, its a war that can't be won. We captured Hussein, and we're handing over control to the Iraqis, now what? We just wait and see? Anything could happen. Think about Cuba. Most Iraqi citizens hate Americans (and not just the Iraqis might i add). And then there was the cost of the war as far as material, money, and above all, human lives.
I think the reason no senator signed the thing for a recount or whatever in the beginning of the film was because the Democrats agreed to not be "sore losers" by asking for a recount. So no Democratic senator would break that, and obviously no Republican senator would help the Democrats.

 

Sure it was! Remember how Bush Senior spent months talking to every Tom, Dick and Ahmed to join a coalition against Iraq? He even got the Syrians to go along, of all people! And gues who, the French! They were the good guys then...

How many countries did the James Baker visit before the show then and how many did Colin Powell? Take a look at http://www.desert-storm.com/War/nations.html for the nations lineup.

And then this greatest of all presidents comes up and decides to throw all this friendship capital away, why I can't fathom! The best thing he could have done would be to step aside and let Daddy George take care of things for him, but no!

 

But Za, did'nt Daddy George have the opportunity to "finish it" but called it off? Before we go bashing American Presidents etc.too much....care to tell us all what your Mexican Pres. is doing to stop the flood of illegals crossing over the border General Freid. Yep,this country has problems.My brother and sister both home-school their kids as the school system is bad.Americans are fat but "it's always somebody elses' "fault". Boy, I'm way off topic now!

[ 15. July 2004, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: FramerT ]

 

That's another kettle of fish I say Bush Sr. prepared very well the start of the war - infinitely better than Junior, but wasn't ready for the endgame.

[ 15. July 2004, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Za Rodina ]

 

Rather than occupy Iraq (like Junior is doing now) they were hoping for the Kurds in the North and Sunai (I think) in the South would finish the job for them, far cheaper but unfortunately less reliable.

 

Ask any bloody republican and they'll throw in McCarthy-like stuff about left-winged, socialist, anarchist, communist sons of b****! Any one who is not a WASP and makes a demonstration against something is a 'liberal'. Green Peace, liberals. Gay Rights, liberals. Hispanic activists, liberals, feminists, liberals. Anti-Bush people, the worst liberals of them all!

And by the way, true Liberalism stands for Human Rights, Democracy, division of powers and Capitalism.

Of course it was! Since the collapse of the USSR the US became the only superpower, a superpower who stood for democracy and LIBERALISM, because of that presided over the UN and achieved a reputation of a moderate superpower that searched multilateral diplomatic solutions and who even tried to solve problems between nations acting as a mediator —e.g. Arafat-Rabbin agreement.

But Georgie made of a respected US an agressive, prepotent, unstoppable superpower. He tore down treaties, agreements, years of good diplomatic relations with many nations, destroyed the authority of the UN and made Al-Qaeda even stronger than in 2001 —being its members some 5.000 more than pre-9/11…

Framert. Can you get that it is not my President?! I did not vote for him, I do not like him and certainly, the illegals thing is a secondary matter now. Mexico is being destroyed by huge political crisis right now and a powerless economy. No one cares about illegals. There are many more important things to do around here: solving the political problems, reforming the constitution to reform the economy, make it grow and then give a better level of life to poor Mexicans so they won't have to go across the border to work as slaves and being discriminated.

Bush senior did not finish things up because the coalition had agreed that the most important objective was to get Saddam out of Kuwait. After this was achieved, there was no more legal background to keep on, even if they should have.

 

Aint seen the film.

But as for Iraq, I will never understand why the US and GB invaded Iraq.

Perhaps someone could enlighten me?

To find WMDs? HAHAHAHAHAHA
To free the Iraqi people? Ok, maybe, but it sure dont seem to have done them any good so far...
Get rid of Saddam? The guy they put there in the first place...
Stop funds to terrorists? Well I bet the terrorists still have plenty of cash!

To be honest I dunno why the US and their 51st state, Great Britain, bothered. I hope it costs the two leaders their jobs! And before someones says 'but it got rid of Saddam!'... Big deal! It aint worth all those guys lives. You telling me that the CIA or SAS couldnt have put sniper in and blatted him from a distance? (Probably not considering the state of US and GB intel these days...) Why invaded and upset the entire balance of power in the Middle East?

It is crazy to have done this without UN backing. I think also very courageous of the French to stand up and contradict the US. Why should everyone just invade a country?

This war is gonna cost everyone a whole lot of lives before its over... If its ever over!

I started off thinking the war in Iraq was a good thing but know I think it may be remembered as one of the biggest mistakes off all time.

How many more countries are gonna get invaded before Junior feels safe?

And whatever happened to Osama???

Finally, I will tell you what put me off the war... It was watching an interview with some US soldiers who were bragging about how many 'Ragheads' they had capped. They all had high scores and admitted that not all may have been soldiers/terrorists. The new guy said he couldnt wait to get stuck in. And before I am accused of anti-US feeling I have heard the same from GB soldiers first hand. I know some out there.

If that is the attitude of the average soldier to the natives (and I aint saying it is) is it any surprise that the Iraqis are fighting?

I would also be interested if anyone can give me accurate analysis of who is resisting US occupation (excuse my terminology).

Also an accurate figure for Coalition casualties?

I hope it all ends soon and those guys fighting get home safe. Too many young men and women have died already...

 

Wow, it sure is going to come as a huge shock to all of you when Bush is Re-elected by over 6% of the vote this November.

Maybe then you'll all wake up from your Propaganda induced trances and realize that what the United States of America, the greatest Nation ON Earth (and quite possibly the greatest ever to Grace the surface of the earth) was right to liberate the Iraqi peoples from Saddam.

~Although if you ask me the liberation shouldve come in 1991, not 2003.

CvM

 

Greatest Nation on Earth...So that means everyone else has to do what you say and cant have their own opinions? Maybe I aint the only one who needs to wake up!

I hope if he does get re-elected it aint as dodgy as the last time!

Why was it right?
Why did they invade?
What happened to Osama?
Where does this 'Propaganda' you speak of come from?

Before you are abusive calling my thoughts a 'trance' perhaps you could answer my questions?

[ 15. July 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: TheRedBaron ]

 

No, it won't be a surprise for me… specially because after another four years we'll have Hillary. I just doubt if the US is still left…

Glad chauvinism is still alive. (Ooops! French word! Sorry.)

 

Me neither. Look what got re-elected here....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1142391,00.html

 

Umm, not in my lifetime - nothing against a woman president of the US - I think that might be a good idea - but hillary - what a politician - maybe the most hypocritical political whore around ?

 

The woman is intelligent and shares her husband's ideas and methods. That would provide an administration identical to Bill's, and that's what the world needs: a quiet superpower that focuses in making money and dragging up the world's economies…

(But don't listen to me, I may be brin-washed by this woman's liberal propaganda-book!)

 

Tell me again why the Clinton administration was so great? I think he got a free ride on the economy - it's a cycle - Clinton had little, if any impact on it. And no, I'm not a repulican - I'd be saying the same thing for Bush. Frankly - I think they dropped the ball on Osama - and we all know what happened after that. And what happened with the healthcare flub - hillary had a bit of play with that? Ummm, Her husband's "methods" - does that include his use of cigars in the "oral" office?
The guy was a sleaze - no denying it - and he "hogged" it with that dumb girl. You're the president of the US for god's sake - he can't get a decent POA? A real shame....
But seriously, no problem with what happens in a man's bedroom - that's between him and his wife - period (frankly - I don't know what kind of woman would forgive such behaviour - what kind of example is that for her own daughter, but keep it discrete and have a little respect for the office. But that's just my opinion.

 

The Lies of Michael Moore
Here's an artilce at Slate which points out some interesting things about the movie for those who are interested in hearing some truth about Moore's "facts".

 

Who cares? moore's rantings are about as meaningless as the naacp's argument against President Bush. Just got my Boycott france bumper sticker from Bill O'Riely.......

 

As I suppose you regularly consume a lot of good French wines, cheeses, food, Louvre art books and Hugo, Balzac, Rousseau and Zola books then I think the country's economy will be very badly damaged.

 

Well now I see the Philippine[52 strong]army pulling out so one of their own does'nt get be-headed.Yes, I voted for Junior[like there was a decent choice]BUT I saw no reason in this Iraq invasion/liberation.And again,if there was a decent choice I'd not vote for him again. For you UK guys here, would Ms Thatcher have been for or against this?Opinions? Every day or two,another bomb explodes,another soldier dead[although not a football star] and for what?? For our country? The summer olympics should be interesting.....