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THE BULGE

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Martin Bull, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Just a thought - when we wake up in our comfortable beds tomorrow morning, let's cast our minds back exactly 60 years to those guys in their frozen foxholes ..... suddenly face-to-face with the Waffen-SS.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Amen Martin. What a dark, dank and cold place 60 years ago

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Just watched a very good documentary on Belgian TV about the Bulge. First part was about the military aspect. Second about the killings of Belgian civilians by the aufklarungs unit of Knittel. Interesting was the footage of the trail of Peiper (with sound). But very impressing was the stories of the people who survived the massacres and had their families wiped out because of spite. [​IMG]
     
  4. jpatterson

    jpatterson Member

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    I should sleep out in the back yard with pack and gear. Going down to 20 degrees f tonight. On second thought.

    Later
     
  5. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The German Commander-in-Chief in the west, Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt, has ordered his troops to "give their all in one last effort". The message was broadcast on Friday (15 December) the day before this latest offensive began.

    He said: "Soldiers of the western front, your great hour has struck. Strong attacking armies are advancing today against the Anglo-Americans. I do not need to say any more to you, you all feel it strongly. Everything is at stake."

    Something to read...:

    http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-E-Ardennes/
     
  6. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Just before dawn of the 16th, Sepp Dietrich's men were read the following mesage from their Commander ; -

    'Men of the Sixth Panzer Armee !
    The moment of decision is upon us. The Fuhrer has placed us at the vital point.
    It is for us to breach the enemy front and push beyond the Meuse. Surprise is half the battle. In spite of the terror bombings, the Home Front has supplied us with tanks, ammunition, and weapons.
    We will not let them down !'

    They would only get as far as La Gleize, miles from the Meuse. But they would leave behind such names as Honsfeld, Stavelot and Malmedy.....
     
  7. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The position of the 2nd infantry division in this battle seems interesting ( now that I have also been doing some research on the allied side...)

    Of course the small roads and the weather were not helping a bit either but as the Germans thought they were facing weak US troops ahead the 2nd div was at the right place at the right time (??!). Opinions?

    -----------

    http://members.aol.com/dan2vero/

    On Dec. 13 the 2nd Division struck through the Monchau Forest northeast of Rocherath. Their mission was to pierce the Siegfried Line at Waherlsheid on the International Road, to secure the Dreiborn Plateau and seize the Roer River dams. By Dec. 16th, the 2nd Division took the crossroads at Wahlersheid, all units were well established and ready to push further when the tragic news came..............The Germans have broken through the Ardennes Forest. The orders were to stand fast, consolidate positions and be
    prepared to withdraw.

    General Von Manteuffel, commander of the Fifth Panzer Army, said: "We failed because our right flank near Monchau ran its head against a wall"
     
  8. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

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    Well, MacDonalds Company Commander gives an interesting insgight in the 2nd Inf Div at that time.

    I do not really know anything about the battles fought by the 2nd Inf Div but as I understand it it was a case of retreat, turn around and shoot and retreat...Of course many units were just overrun...
     
  9. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Operation Greif was called off by Otto Skorzeny on 18th Dec as the breakthrough was not made and the troops were used as ordinary soldiers in the battle.
     
  10. Air Force 4 Life

    Air Force 4 Life Member

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    I happened to be at the Ceremony in Bastogne, Belgium this weekend and was extremely HONORED to say the least to be a part of the ceremonies honoring the members of the 101st and other "Battle of the Bulge" Veterans. I was able to be 1 of 50 holding the 50 flags of the Great USA during both of the ceremonies...one in the town and the other at the Ceremonial grounds next to the museum. There were over 330 veterans just from one group. I got a chance to meet a few, but was far to involved in the ceremonies to get a good conversation going with a group of them(i guess i had to give some to take some). It was windy, snowing and about 20-23 degrees F and for someone that knows a very little about history, I can say that it added to it showing just a fraction of what the Men and Women of the Allied Armed Forces went through to preserve our freedom that we so easily take for granted. It's hard to put into words the feeling that I experienced being around the "Greatest Generation" in person and where a lot of it all happened. Walking past all of the re-enactors with the full uniforms, weapons, everything that you can think of was quite a site to see. IT WAS TRULY AN HONOR to participate in the 60th Anniversary Battle of the Bulge Ceremonies. To any veterans reading this......"THANK YOU!!!"

    V/R
    Tyler Berensen
    United States Air Forces in Europe
    Spangdahlem AB, Germany
     
  11. sommecourt

    sommecourt Member

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    Have spent some pretty harsh winters 'over there', and at this time of year my mind always wonders to the Ardennes and this poem;

    A poem by Bernard J. McKearney
    World War II veteran
    From: "Rendezvous with Destiny,
    A History of the 101st Airborne Division"
    by Leonard Rapport and Arthur Northwood, Jr.
    Published by: Sean Konecky, Konecky & Konecky Books


    THE HILLS OF BASTOGNE

    The crops should be full in Belgium this year,
    The soil should be fertile, but the price has been dear,
    The wheat should be red on the hills of Bastogne
    For its roots have been drenched by the blood of our own.
    Battered and reeling we stand in their way,
    It's here we are, and here we will stay.
    Embittered, wrathful, we watch our pals fall,
    God, where's the end, the end of it all?
    Confident and powerful, they strike at our lines,
    But we beat them back, fighting for time.
    Berserk with fury, they are hitting us now,
    Flesh against steel - we hold - but how?
    For each day that we stay, more mothers must grieve.
    For each hill that we hold more men must we leave.
    Yes, honor the men who will some day come home,
    But pray for the men 'neath the hills of Bastogne.
     
  12. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Paul excellent ! as many of you think about what happened some 60 years ago I go back to the German Nachtjagd losses; over 144 a/c lost in some painfully rude weather, flak and Mossie/P-61 intruders and just plain stupid accidents

    Greetings all
     
  13. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Erich,

    Probably you can help with this one. ( or if anyone else has read details, thanx! )

    Was the operation Bodenplatte ( maybe not with the same name though ) in the first place meant to start on the 16th Dec with the Wacht am Rhein but the bad weather prevented this, as well as the allied planes from flying? That would make more sense to this attack I think.

    Like one author put it. The operation Bodenplatte was a disaster for the Luftwaffe, a hiccup for the Allied Air Force.

    :eek:
     
  14. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Paul, I see you don't permit ratings, but as it's Christmas.....

    * * * * * !

    ( ;) [​IMG] )
     
  15. sommecourt

    sommecourt Member

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    Eh? What are "ratings"; have I missed something?! :confused:
     
  16. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    yes 5 stars for Paul !

    Kai I think you are correct, but as the Germans were thinking the Allies would be festive on the 31st of December and then a sleep over into the 1st it would make perfect sense for an early morning attack........silly.

    Unfortunately the Luftwaffe even with Ju88G guides; several of the units just got plain lost flying over the snowy covered landscape. Only JG 3 really beat-up the airfield and a/c still on "their" airfield target.........

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Tirpitz

    Tirpitz Member

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    As von Runstedt put it so well, "This thing hasn't got a leg to stand on!". I would hate to be on either side. The Americans took over 70,000 casualties, the Germans over 100,000. And about those men in the forward foxholes facing the initial bombardment, I doubt many of them lived to tell the tale.
     
  18. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    Actually, the German initial bombardment was rather ineffective and in many cases downright pathetic. First, their artillerymen were not allowed to do any registration shoots to preserve secrecy. This meant that in almost every case their shooting was scattered and often not even on target since they were almost always firing off the map without forward observers (due to a shortage of communications equipment and having no means to move observers forward in advance of the opening of the battle). Secondly, there was a general shortage of shells for the artillery. This was in part due to a majority of the aritllery in the various Volks Artillerie Korps being captures, mostly Russian. Adding to this was that many batteries (particularly the nebelwerfers) were very short ranged or set up too far back to effectively fire on many targets.
    Once the offensive got rolling most of these batteries played little or no further part being unable to displace forward due to lack of transport and road congestion.
     

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