Were the Germans secret weapons folly ?

Thanks bud, usually when I post I get that message "Thank you for your post,..." or if it is a duplicate a statement to that effect.

This time neither of those showed up, so I didn't know what had happened to the first two until I posted the third and then got the "Thank you...." message. When it took me to my post, there were the other TWO!

Thanks for the removal of the dupes.

 

The Germans awed the world with their "experiments" They did do what they were supposed to do, create an image of the all powerful Wermacht. The downfall was that they could have been used much more effectivly.

1. The V-3 (Destroyed in final stages of production)
An artillery piece so big that it had to be constructed mountain. It would fire super large shells that could reach much farther then London. As well as a velocity so strong that the shells could move large amounts of Earth before exploding. The Allies sent a massive armada of bombers to destroy it when it was found.

2. Me-262 (Mass produced)
A revolutionary jet fighter that could outrun anything the allies had many times over. A very active hunter of allied bombers.
This weapon was a true demoralizer as you can imagine only seeing many groups of twin smoke contrails in the air and then your fellow bombers suddenly exploding.

3.V-2 (Mass produced and used)
An amazing long range rocket that could possible have served to put a thorn in Britain's factories. The only downside was that it had a kilometer wide scale of where it could land. As well as that it was used for terror bombind; not military bombing.

4.Jagdtiger
A super *unstopable* tank which had armour so thick that it could not be pierced by anything the Allies could field. As well as the its massive gun which could pierce any tank that the allies could send against it. its massive downside was it was prone to breaking down as it was equiped with the much weaker Jagdpanther engine which was suited for a tank much lighter than itself.

 

This just has to be Comedy Night

"They did do what they were supposed to do, create an image of the all powerful Wermacht" and that fell flat on it's bum as none of them worked as advertised making said Wehrmacht looking like fools.

That artillery piece couldn't budge, so it couldn't be aimed. The thing was built to point at a certain elevation and orientation and that's it. Want a second target? Build another one.

Just ask Walter Nowotny how his Wunderwaffe was shot down by two P-51s.

Here's a thread we had a few months ago concerning the Me 262 myth.

http://www.ww2f.com/what-if/20325-what-if-me-262-created-earlier.html

An amazing long range rocket that couldn't hit squat, I think today somebody here said it had a CEP (circular error probalbe) between 6km to 17km. Great Wunderwaffe!

Is this a joke? We had so many threads about the Jagdtiger that it indeed is making a fool of oneself trying to resurect the thing.

Here's just one.
http://www.ww2f.com/weapons-wwii/22852-jagdtigers-combat.html

Maybe it's something in the water?

 

Well, we can't blame this one on the US public school system.... Or can we?

 

He emmigrated.

 

Closest thing I have knowledge of were 155mm nuclear artillery projectiles. A standard explosive projectile of that caliber weighs in at 47 kilograms. I'll leave you to guess what a Uranium charge and Lead shielding added to that might be.

 

Of all the V-2s which were launched as military rockets by the Germans against Allied targets in World War II, they only resulted in the deaths of 7,250 persons, both military personnel and civilians. At the same time as many as 20,000 persons at Mittelbau-Dora died constructing V-2s.

This sets the record for the weapon that caused more deaths building it than from using it; most of those who died in the construction process were German prisoners/slave laborers. 2,890 V-2s were launched successfully, and they were distributed over the various targets as follows:

Aftermath of a V-2 rocket attack on the main intersection in Antwerp, Belgium, November 27, 1944, was 1610, a total of 1664 killed in Belgium, Antwerp (1610), Liege (27), Hasselt (13), Tournai (9), Mons (3), Diest (2)


In Great Britain it was 1402 killed: London (1358), Norwich (43), Ipswich (1)

In France, 76 total killed: Lille (25), Paris (22), Tourcoing (19), Arras (6), Cambrai (4)

In other areas, Maastricht (19), Remagen (11).

Ironically the entire V-2 project from start to finish cost the Third Reich about 2 billion 1940s US dollars. Compare that to the entire Manhattan Project (excluding the $74 million spend to convert the special B-29s into the Silver Plate versions); $1,889,604,000. At the end of 1945, there were four complete devices finished, and one more set of implosion cases and its plutonium core which were NOT coupled together.

See:

Manhattan Project Costs

Without considering the "moral or ethical" values of any weapon of war, which seems to have been the more cost effective expenditure toward ending the war?

 

The closest thing I know of to a suitcase nuke had to be the US Davey Crockett deployed in the 1960's. Essentially it was two guys with a "nuclear grenade launcher" on a jeep. If they were lucky they'd fire the weapon to a distance great enough to survive the detonation....maybe......

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=783

I know one thing: I wouldn't have volunteered for duty on that weapon!

 

Volunteer Sweet fanny Adams you'd need to have the pistols muzzle leaving a dent in the side of my temple before I'd jump into that coffin. Hope the Mental Giant who thought that one up volunteered for the first test fire. Which i'm guessing, as the idea seems to have died i presume he did. :headbash:

Maybe he led that poor unfortunate Battalion { I Think ? } in their advance to ground zero during the post Manhattan project Nevada Nuclear tests. How do some of these people get to be in command of men ?
:mourn:

 

Outstanding Clint your a gem this is on the money { if you'll pardon the pun } It illustrates one of the points i have been debating elsewhere. The subject in essence being that had de havilands idea of mass producing the DH98 in the dominions come to fruition. Then this would of allowed the bombing campaign in europe to have been conducted in a more precise way with a much reduced loss of life { I feel the americans in particular would of benifitted greatly from this }

Would the cost disparity beetween Spitfire and mosquito possibly be that the spit has a Rolls Royce engine and the Mosie has Packard's dont know if there was much cost difference in the US produced units but i'm guessing there would of been?

Anyhoo Cheers again hope i can be of as much use to you soon.

 

There weren’t all that many Mosquitoes built with the Packard built Merlins actually. Of the nearly 8,000 produced, I can only find a little over 300 with the Packard version engine listed here:

WW2 Warbirds: the De Havilland Mosquito (Bomber, Fighter-bomber and Night-Fighter variants) - Frans Bonné

So I wonder if that cost difference in engines would be the difference.

Now addressing your idea about replacing the strategic American bombers. I think that while the original Boeing B-17B only carried about 4,800 pounds of bombs (800 more than the DH98), it should be remembered that the C, D, and E models could carry 8,000 lbs., and while the F model was about the same, the G could max out at 17,600 lbs. with 4,000 lbs. on the wing hard points alone (a "Mossie" load).

The Consolidated B-24 could carry 12,000 pounds of bombs, three times the load of the Mosquito. So, considering those two main strategic bombers of the USAAF, I don’t see the Mosquito replacing them as delivery systems somehow.

I dearly love Frans Bonne’s aircraft pages, just chock full of good stats.

 

Brilliant this is the sort of thing i was looking for a couple of days ago when i was discussing this on another forum which now seems to of dissapeared down the wormhole previously mentioned in this thread. LOL. So wasm't aware that the B 17G was rated to 17'600 much more than i had previously thought, what was the range with that payload? Also was completely oblivious to there being wing mounts on that craft, as if it didn't have enouigh drag trying to pull it out of the Air. Were they by any chance intended for drop tanks or always a payload?

Despite the superior size of the payload of the American Heavies i still fancy the idea of utilizing the manpower that was expended in a more effective way. Obvious hole in the programme is:
1. Need to Train many many more pilots. The Empire training scheme was the blueprint for this and sucessfully provided many young men to fly in amny combat theatres.

2. Short term life span on wooden airframes about 150hrs. This could be balanced against the ruggedness of the airframe but there atre inherend difficulties in the maintenence of wooden A/C { European Theatre, Pacific has another whole set of pro's and con's.

In light of thew figures you have given me i would have to re asses the theory but off the top of my head i still think it flies {Pardon the Pun LOL}

For the cost of 1 heavy you could have lets say 3 DH 98's

1 Heavy could carry 17'000 lbs of ordanance with a say at best 20% effective strike on target. =3'400lbls

3 DH 98's could carry 12'000lbs of ordanance with lets say conservitavely 50% effective strike on target.=6'000lbs

1 Heavy = Aprox 10 men
3 DH 98 = 6 men

Chances of Fail to return
Heavy 1/30 aprox
DH 98 1/100 aprox

so you can see my thinking on this not hat we could go back and reorganise the air campain but i do like to speculate.

 

Actually the Jagdtiger thing was meant to be a bit of a joke although I do strongy believe that it was an amazing idea but they werent ready for it.

 

You are thinking about a test shot run in 1957 called "Smokey II." A 1000 man infantry battalion was entrenched about 3000 yards from ground zero. Thrity minutes after the detonation they were formed up and marched across ground zero without any protective gear.
Smokey I had a battalion exposed at about 4000 yards from ground zero.
The men did have radiation dosimetry on and were checked for exposure afterwards. All together there were just over 3000 men exposed in these tests with doses ranging from about 2 to 20 rad total exposure.

Of course, I have also seen a film from about the same period where the British Army gave a whole battalion a dose of LSD and had them try and execute a battle exercise while "tripping."

Basically, the late 40's and 50's were a period where militaries were experimenting with a number of very lethal new weapons whose effects were poorly known and understood. Given the situation with the Cold War and Soviet Union along with the social mores of the day these tests were not unreasonable. Yes, by today's standard they are appaling but not by the standards of the time. Some of the US military men exposed did eventually receive some compensation but not most.

 

Nice work T.A. yeah the Americans experimented with the LSD thing in the early sixties also Project M.K.Ultra.

In Australia we had similar Nuke experiments at Maralinga but the Brittish Govt didn't have to bother testing it on soldiers they just left some of the local Aboriginals out there during the tests. I do try to veiw these experiments in context of their times. A Good example is i vehemently defend the use of the first device at Hiroshima but am adamant that the use of the second one at Nagasaki is nothing more than blatant weapons testing. So i think that the commanders of the day could of gained all the info they needed about the effects of radiation poisoning from japan. Still hinsight is Twenty Twenty. Good post T.A. Cheers