Grant tanks in Burma

Hi, guys. I've been combing the Web and coming up snake-eyes on this. Does anyone know the correct markings for British M3 Grant tanks in Burma? Any picture resources on the Web you can point me to? Even a verbal description would be great - I'm fairly familiar with the concept of British squadron/formation signs, so I should be able to match a description up with aftermarket decal sets. Thanks in advance.

 

All I can suggest is a search through the IWM photo archive.
A few Grants in Burma but far more Lees.
Some shots of the Lees show the markings off quite well.
IWM Collections Online: Search Photographs Archive

 

There's a modeler named R. Mark Davies (scroll down) who seems to know.
[TMP] "Indian WW2 tank colors" Topic
If you knew a particular unit, it would be a bonus.

 

I have several photos of Lee tanks in Burma but none of Grants. The Lees appear to be A1 and A2 models (short 75mm with riveted hulls) and they all lack the machinegun cupola on the turret. Take that back...one in one photo has a cupola. They all appear to be typical US Olive Drab or the British equivalent (can't tell for sure from the pictures of course) but are solid color over all.
All appear to have the smooth rubber block style tracks.
Some have very large white stars on the hull sides just ahead of the doors. All appear to have the solid road wheels rather than the spoked type. The vehicle serial appears in what looks like yellow at the back end of the hull on each side (a "T" with the serial following).
In two photos what looks like a dual standard British style smoke discharger has been added to the turret side on the port side of the tank.

You might also see if you can find a copy of the regimental history of the 3rd Carabiniers written by L. Col. L B Oatts.

The units I know had Lees include: 3rd Carabiniers (Pow's Dragoon Guards) and the 254th Indian Tank Bde less 7th Indian Cavarly in Stuarts.

 

Gentlemen, these were outstandingly helpful replies. Thank you very much.

 

If memory serves the last model of M3 (M3A5?) was called a Grant II by the British and were used in the far East; they had the 'Lee' type turret rather than the early 'Grant' type. So you may have seen a picture of the above marked as and looking like a Lee but which would have been called a Grant II by British and Commonwealth users.

 

Interesting - I've seen pics of Lees in Burma with the turret cupola removed - I wonder if this is your "Grant II".

 

Sounds like it could be.

In preference the British prefered not to have a radio operator and for the commander to do this job so the original Grant Turret was manufactured to a UK specification and aside from the obvious point of having the radio in the turret it also had several other bonus's; specifically reduced height and thicker frontal armour (an extra half an inch) as well as one less crew allowing more ammunition. The British considered all in all that this was a superior arrangement.

I cannot remember what the 'perk' was with the last M3 model (If you need to know I can check for you; let me know) but it was sufficient for the British to call it the Grant II. By this stage M3's were below even 'substitute standard' in the US and I don't think the Soviets wanted any more 'graves for 7 brothers' so the end of the production run went to the commonwealth forces in the Far East where Tank and Anti-Tank opposition was of course less developed; apparently they were popular in Theatre because they were comfortable and reliable.

 

Here are a couple of shots of British Grants of the 3rd Carabiniers in Burma. There is not much in the way of markings on either, the tank in the foreground has the name 'ANGEL' painted on the door just below the vision slot. They would appear to be painted 'Jungle green', which is a standard dark olive drab. They may have Tac signs, Circle, Square, Triangle painted in squadron colours, usually on the turret. I have seen at least one Lee with a large white allied star, but this, I think was not the norm.

 

I like the second photograph: aside from being a good shot that is an early Grant which means it would have been built in the US, shiiped to the UK, shipped on to the Middle East/North Africa, fought it's way across half a continent before being shipped to Burma and fighthing there. 4 continents and lord alone knows how many miles

 

I'm pretty sure that the Americans were making the Shermans, which made the Grant "substitute standard". Of course, that label doesn't mean anything; the Thompson was labeled "substitute standard" although the standard SMG (M3 Grease Gun) was most definitely inferior.

The Grant and Lee worked very well in North Africa. The 75mm side turret could kill any Axis tank there from the front, and the 37mm wasn't that obsolete back then, either. And the British, of course, were happy to get something that actually allowed them to take out German tanks (two-pounder guns...ugh). Admittedly, it suffered from the long-barreled 75mm Panzer-IVs, but there weren't many of those things out there.

 

The British were delighted; in fact the home grown Tanks were at that much of a disadvantage that there was much delight when the M3 light Tanks turned up as they were a better main battle tank than that which was available at the time.

 

The reason I stated earlier they had to be A1 or A2s is that from the A3 on the hull was cast rather than rivetted. Even the later A2s got the M3 75mm gun versus the shorter M2 75mm. Most early A2s had a large weight bolted on the end of the gun where the M2 was installed due to the mounting being balanced for the longer M3 gun.
Note on the two photos above that the tracks in use on these partiuclar tanks are the "British" pattern rubber cleated track with that notched raised cleat on the rubber portion. The road wheels are still the solid pattern (possibly having been replaced due to wear from the early open spoked type).

 

That is the WE 210 'Double I bar track'. Essential to get the distinctive track right if you are about to model one of these Burma Grants.

 

long time since Jan I know
any development on this post? I am trying to chart my Father's wartime career and know he was a radio op in tanks with 3rd Carabiniers - I have read Lees but photos show no upper gun cupola/turret hence I assumed "British" Grants (unless it isn't that simple - markings would be nice to know and photos (T.A.G??)
any info would be appreciated - apart from buying periodicals and Airfix kits when I was in my teens I am a little new to this game!!