Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Did they make it ?

Discussion in 'Information Requests' started by uksubs, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. uksubs

    uksubs Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    36
    I've always wonder if any of these brave British paratroopers in this photo ever lived to fight another day :eek::confused:[​IMG]
     
    von Poop likes this.
  2. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    1,487
    Location:
    London, England.
    This is one for Airborne Medic !

    I do know that strenuous efforts have been made to pinpoint the location, and to identify the men. Many theories have been put forward as to the location ( including school buildings, hospitals etc ) and I think that the latest opinion seems to be that the photo was taken in a building close to the Hartenstein Hotel in Oosterbeek ( Arnhem).

    AFAIK, the men haven't been positively identified - unless there have been further, recent revelations ? :confused:
     
  3. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    1,487
    Location:
    London, England.
    OK - I've just been looking through my collection of Friends Of The Airborne Museum newsletters.

    In June 2004, the Society published a copy of this photo, asking their members exactly the same question.

    It is known to have been taken between 23 & 25 September 1944 by Sergeant Mike Lewis of the Army Film & Photographic Unit, and is photo #7 of his film reel #4.The other six photos on the reel were all taken near the Hartenstein Hotel.

    In SFAM Newsletter #96, the response was collated. The only man to be positively identified is the one wearing the beret ; Staff Sergeant Mark Leaver, G Squadron, Glider Pilot Regiment. Mark Leaver passed away on 31st October, 2000.

    More successful was the quest for the location of the photo.A key clue was the stockpiled building material seen in the photo : this had to be for German use as it was unavailable to civilians. At the time of the Battle, the Germans were building a communications bunker near the the present Kleine Hartenstein Restaurant ( then the coach-house of the hotel ). Next to the coach-house was an old orangery and an RAF recce photo taken in March 1945 shows this building, minus its' glass roof. Details of the building correspond exactly with those to be seen in the 'mystery' photo.

    It's virtually certain that Sergeant Lewis stood just outside the main doorway of the building on the south side, having asked a group of Glider Pilots who were at the time charged with defending the Hartenstein grounds, to move toward him through the room inside the building as though on patrol ( yes, it's yet another posed 'action' photo ;) ).

    The remains of the orangery were demolished post-war , so when you visit the Hartenstein Museum today and park in the car park, you are standing virtually where the 'patrol' was.
     
  4. TA152

    TA152 Ace

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    3,423
    Likes Received:
    120
    That is great you found the information Martin, however you have stumped the chump again with your words ! What is an orangery ? It is not in my dictionary and I don't think they have citrus groves in Holland. :eek:
     
  5. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    1,487
    Location:
    London, England.
    'Orangeries' were popular in the 18th/19th Centuries - they were like huge greenhouses ( glasshouses ) which were attached to stately homes and suchlike so that the owners could enjoy ( or show off and impress their friends with) fresh citrus fruits which, in the days before refrigerated transport, could not be imported into Europe from the Colonies ;)

    Although they were a kind of glasshouse, because the orange trees are quite tall they were usually brick-built with the roof and maybe one or two walls glazed.....
     
  6. uksubs

    uksubs Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    36
    Thanks Very Much for Martin :)
     
  7. arneken

    arneken Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    18
    Intersesting to see how things can be solved.

    I always asked myself the same question and I already read some stuff about it. (I did knew it was a similated pic)

    nice work.
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    26,469
    Likes Received:
    2,208
    That was interesting. Thanx again, Martin!
     

Share This Page