Me-323 massacre

Sorry I´m a little late to post on the thread, but they say that late is better than never...

Are we talking here about the Cape Bon Massacre, also called Palm Sunday Massacre?
In those hectic days when the end in Africa was finally at hand, there were several instances in which Commonwealth and USAAF planes just hacked the Axis transports out of the sky, including their fighter escorts.

Seems like Ultra provided lots of info on the last ditch efforts Jerry was doing to send sorely needed stuff to Africa, and Allied air just capitalized on it, over and over for a period of several weeks.

 

it's done. I intend to download more in the coming weeks. By clicking on it it should enlarge.


Battleaxe, yes this is the Cape Bon Massacre and welcome.

 

The Me 323E-2/WT was TOO SLOW to act as escort or defend anything
The 2 blade prop is an earlier model.

 

I'm actually surprised it could fly at all with two blades, it must have flown even slower.

 

Do you mean a Gigant acting as an escort for other Gigants??!!!! Come on! The thing was nothing more that an almost untowable glider (fabric cover and all) with engines.

 

Wow, this thread has been a real learning experience. Thanks for posting it B-17!

 

Actually, the 'gunship' escort concept is not unique to the Gigant - they tried 'gunning up' some B-17's and called them YB-40's - they had an extra dorsal turret, the waist guns were double -50's (instead of single -50's), and I beleve it was the first model with the 'chin' turret at the bombradier's station (which was removed in the YB-40's - the bomb bay was converted into a magazine to carry the extra ammo). They also added extra armor.


It turned out that with the extra weight of the additional guns, armor and ammo, they could barely keep up with the bomber stream on the way in - and, after dropping their loads, the outbound bombers had to slow down so the 'escort' gunships could keep up!

Needless to say, they weren't deemed a success, and only 25 or so were made.

-whatever

-Lou

 

Look at some of the B-25s and A-26s that were HEAVILY gunned. Some of those 10-12 forward firing fifties might have surprised and unwary attacker.

 

o, that's for sure - some of the videos that are out there of the South Pacific B-25 gunships attacking Japanese surface vessels are truly amazing - they put out a serious punch that could really ruin your day.

However, as far as I am aware, the B-25 and A-20 gunships were designed, and primarily employed as, offensive weapons. The Gigant Waffentragers and the YB-40's were exclusively utilized in a defensive, escort capacity, and, as such, were insufficient to the task.

But I certainly would have hated to be in a Japanese coastal barge and look up and see one of Pappy Gunn's litttle offspring bearing down on me.

-whatever

-Lou

 

The concept of a heavy air gunship to supplement escorting fighters by providing the innermost layer of defense for a bomber or transport formation sounds very interesting for those days, but the glider-with-engines just wasn´t exactly the best craft to develop as such.

Surely good ol´Herman came up with the idea the same day he said that the Luftwaffe alone could keep the 6th Army supplied at Stalingrad.

 

If you could have all those guns to fire backwards, yes.

 

I really picture more of a surprised enemy who might make a pass at a formation of those gunships more than their effectiveness as true escorts. I'd say they'd be in the Bf 110 class where they would be ineffective against fighters. While they'd be in the class of bomber destroyer that is a dubious area at best.

Anyone remeber the Bell FM-1 Airacuda? http://www.highgallery.com/USmilitaryAircraft/Bell/military-aircraft-fm-1.html

It was one of those "lost prototypes" that never made it.

 

First time I here of this one. Thanks for the link it's an interesting concept. it must have been too heavy and lack power.

 

With all this talk about gunships, one wonders where, in those days, did the line stand between this experimental concept and that of night fighters, concerned more with firepower than speed and maneuverability... (guess this is turning into a new thread)

 

I have actually did some rsearch on the YB-40. I have read that between May 29 and August 16th 1943 they were operational and flew one mission to Italy and was not as successful as intended so the whole project just stopped

 

Also the Bell Airacudas gunners in the engine were just almost loaders. This was becasue the guns were mostly fired inside from fire control officers. They could fire themselves but it was mostly they reloaded the gun.

The Bell FM AIRACUDA:

The plane was intended to be a ANti Aircraft Mobile platform. Its 600 lb bomb load was almost useless and each of the Nacelles had a 37 mm or 27 mm cannon in it. Airacuda pilots reported that the plane was unstable in a pitch with the power on, but once the power was reduced it became stable, which made it easy to land. THe highly complicated electircal system rewuired a full-time auxilary petrol motor running inside the fuselage to keep it energized. If it failed, which it did, the pilot lost flaps, gear, fuel pumps and engines. There was a perascope under the nose so the fire control officer could spot enemy fighters. The Airacuda had a lot of drag making it slower then most bombers and less manoverable then most fighters........It overall was a bad design.

 

Hmm interesting details, being reduced to load guns for others must have been frustrating!
But aren't we getting off topic here?

 

Opppsss didn't even realize it

 

I just stumbled across this eBay listing of a guy selling prints of the above photo. His description of the item, for what it's worth, is

""A heavily armed six-engine ME-323 being shot down off Cape Corse, Corsica, by a B-26 Marauder of the Air Force."
US AAF Description​

​

...heavily armed?

It could be a Waffentrager, but I have my doubts.

-whatever

-Lou

 

INteresting