Armor in Berlin

Taking this example:

I wonder how such a tiny force who as said before was quite low on fuel and I don't know how much ammunition managed to rack up such a kill score. Who counted tese figures? And what external confirmation is there?

 

Hi Za Rodinu,

Well I don’t know for sure, but I guess they were pretty good fighters, don’t you think so. I don’t know about low fuel and ammo either, but it seems that at least Köningstigers and Stugs got fuel and ammo from several storages in different buildings around the city, e.g. at Göring Villa on Wilhelm Street. Anyway, there is tons of literature covering the last days of Berlin battles, where you can find tons of figures (some right and some wrong – choose yourself which ones you like), but as for starters as a selected bibliography and as an external confirmation I could recommend following:

Fey, Will, Armor Battles of the Waffen-SS, Mechanicsburg, 2003

Beevor, Anthony, Berlin The Downfall 1945, London, 2002

Le Tissier, Tony, With Our Backs to Berlin, London, 2001

Jentz, Thomas L., Doyle, Hilary Louis, Germany’s Tiger tanks series – Tigers at the front, Atglen, 2001

Le Tissier, Tony, Race for the Reichstag, London, 1999

Schneider, Wolfgang, Tigers in Combat Vol. II, Winnipeg, 1998

Jentz, Thomas L., Doyle, Hilary Louis, Germany’s Tiger tanks – Tiger I & II: Combat tactics, Atglen, 1997

Fey, Will, Panzerkampf im Bild. Panzerkommandanten berichten, Berg am Starnberger See, 1996

Le Tissier, Tony, Zhukov at the Oder: The Decisive Battle for Berlin, London, 1996

Bauer, Frank, Pfundt, Karen, and Le Tissier, Tony, Der Todeskampf der Reichshauptstadt, Berlin, 1994

Ramm, Gerald, Gott mit uns – Kriegerlebnisse aus Brandenburg und Berlin, Woltersdorf, 1994

Rocolle, Pierre, Le sac de Berlin avril – mai 1945, Paris, 1992

Burkert, Hans-Norbert, and Matussek, Klaus, Zertört – Besiegt – Befreit. Kampf um Berlin bis zur Kapitulation, Berlin, 1985

Ticke, Wilhelm, Das Ende zwischen Oder und Elbe – Der Kampf um Berlin 1945, Stuttgart, 1981

Shultz-Naumann, Joachim, Die letzten dreissig Tage. Das Kriegstagebuch des OKW April-Mai 1945, Munich, 1980

Kempka, Erich, Die letzten Tage mit Adolf Hitler, Preussich-Oldendorf 1976

Gehlen, Richard, The Gehlen Memoirs, London, 1972

Ryan Cornelius, The Last Battle, London, 1966

Tully, Andrew, Berlin – the Story of a Battle, New York, 1963

Weidling, General Helmuth, Der Endkampf in Berlin, Potsdam, 1962

Rocolle, Pierre, Götterdämmerung – La Prise de Berlin, Indo-China, 1954

Eisenhower, Dwight, Crusade in Europe, New York, 1948

Shirer, William L., End of a Berlin Diary, New York, 1947

As for a shortcut, here’s the link to the Soviet stats, which seem to pretty much agree on the Soviet tank losses.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=124380&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Hope this helped a bit.

AJJ

 

Korps Steiner ~ Norland-Nederland, Schwere Pz. Abteilung SS 503

essential reading

Tragodie of the Faithful III. Germanisches Ss Panzer Korps

essential reading

both the above needed to be added to the excellent listing by AAJ.

I also have a personal compendium on the 1st title I did back in late 1980's just on Kausch and Hv.S. and the 503rd SS Schwere and the relationship the two SS-Pz. units had with one another amalgamated together into a regiment and then into two separate formations while in the Ost theater, somewhat confusing really

 

Quite a bibliography, but which ones of those do provide what would be termed accurate operational research on primary loss cause for all those destroyed Soviet tanks?

I have read a few of those above, and quite frankly I don't think Cornelius Ryan addresses the question, nor do Reinhard Gehlen's memoirs which in fact are quite far from it. Will a general reading list be useful for the purpose of explaining the kill claims of PzDiv Müncheberg?

 

_ M _ have found nothing from the Soviet position due to closed doors, but that is changing to the good at a snails pace. my would I personally love something along the lines of the Nachtjagd War Diaries for German Panzer and Soviet Tank claims and losses to have as an cross-check reference. If it could only be done, what a fantastic source this would be

 

The Soviets did conduct extensive operational research. From their literature they strived to learn from their errors and wanted to make sure they would not repeat them in WW3. There is much to be read in ÷ïåîîáñ ìéôåòáôõòá -- ÷ÏÅÎÎÁÑ ÉÓÔÏÒÉÑ but it's in Russian Some of their Military History Journal was translated at Red Army Online but I just found this was taken over by some reenactor group

Of course the Red Army suffered horendous losses in the Berlin operation, but considering the chaos it was I tend to disbelieve outlandish claims from bottom of the barrel units who had no way to verify kills. It's more or less like the kill claims from USAF air gunners: so many shooting at the same 109, and each claiming a kill.

 

many Wehrmacht log books were either buried or burned during the latter days of the war. sounds like an excuse but true. have found this _ M _ to be quite true in regards to my own personal searches for 35 years, the materials are simply not there.

Soviet sources have been quite private for many an eon now just surfacing for the general public and serious historians, again maybe with time this will all come to fruition and it needs to if at all possible

 

Hi,

I agree with Erich totally, both Wilhelm Tieke’s books Korps Steiner Nordland/Nederland: Nachräge zu den Truppengeschichten and The Tragedy of the Faithful: 3rd SS Panzer Corps are indeed essential reading and truly excellent ones: Highly recommended. Thanks Erich for bringing these books up.

Furthermore, I certainly agree with Erich that a fantastic book would be the one having cross-checked references of both German Panzer and Soviet Tank claims and losses.

Well said and put Erich, very true!


Za Rodinu, it’s always good to get overall big picture before going into details, hence a lot of research and reading is a must. Having said that the ones to pick up from the list in order to find out best big picture and some scores are:

Beevor, Anthony, Berlin The Downfall 1945, London, 2002 – probably gives the best overall picture Berlin end battles and includes actions, which can be easily cross-checked from other sources. A monumental work – a must book, a superb book, just get it.

Fey, Will, Panzerkampf im Bild. Panzerkommandanten berichten, Berg am Starnberger See, 1996 – includes a lot of details, scores, action reports, memories of tank commanders, great photos etc…This book hasn’t been translated in English.

Fey, Will, Armor Battles of the Waffen-SS, Mechanicsburg, 2003 – as Fey’s book above, having lots of similarities with Panzerkampf im Bild. Panzerkommandanten berichten, i.e. some same stories, but still a different book, therefore compliments the other Fey’s book.

Schneider, Wolfgang, Tigers in Combat Vol. II, Winnipeg, 1998 – a great pictorial unit history book, gives scores and losses quite accurately, which can be easily cross-checked from other sources, e.g. Fey’s books and Beevor’s already classic narrative history.

Tieke, Wilhelm, The Tragedy of the Faithful: 3rd SS Panzer Corps, Winnipeg, 2001 – an essential reading as Erich well pointed out. Covers the Battle for Berlin with unit actions and there are nice appendices that offer a bit more detail to formations.

Tieke, Wilhelm, Korps Steiner Nordland/Nederland: Nachräge zu den Truppengeschichten and Das Ende zwischen Oder und Elbe – Der Kampf um Berlin 1945 – as with above, essential reading, covers the Battle for Berlin with unit actions. To my knowledge these book haven’t been translated in English, I can be wrong of course.

Le Tissier, Tony, Zhukov at the Oder: The Decisive Battle for Berlin, London, 1996; Le Tissier, Tony, Race for the Reichstag, London, 1999 and Le Tissier, Tony, With Our Backs to Berlin, London, 2001 – includes orders of battles, TOEs and some good accounts. Compliments already above listed books.

Selecting a “shortcut” out of these books listed above and particularly if the English is the only readable language, I would probably pick up Beevor’s Berlin The Downfall 1945, Fey’s Armor Battles of the Waffen-SS, Schneider’s Tigers in Combat Vol. II and Tieke’s The Tragedy of the Faithful: 3rd SS Panzer Corps.

These books should give you an excellent overview of the Berlin battles as well as lots of details on scores, losses etc…by cross-checking them.


An example:

Recheck the link I posted on the Soviet losses (their own stats), as e.g. Marshal G. K. Zhukov’s 1st Belorussian Front’s 542 tank/SP-gun losses (total destroyed) and 1076 (total losses, includes damaged and other losses) within 12 days (20.4. – 2/3.5.1945) quite well matches the claims made by the sSS Pz Abt 503, the SS Pz Abt. Hermann von Salza, the 33rd SS-Freiwilligen Gren Division Charlemagne and the 11th SS Pz Gren Nordland Division – 480 destroyed tanks/SP-guns for the sSS Pz Abt 503 and the SS Pz Abt. Hermann von Salza plus 62 destroyed tanks/SP-guns for the 33rd SS-Freiwilligen Gren Division Charlemagne and the 11th SS Pz Gren Nordland Division = grand total 542 tanks/SP-guns destroyed, which is exactly the same figure as the Soviet stats say.

E.g. Fey’s book; Fey, Will, Armor Battles of the Waffen-SS, Mechanicsburg, 2003; gives exactly the same figures as the Soviet statistics for the same time period of 20.4. – 2/3.5.1945 -> 480 destroyed tanks/SP-guns for the sSS Pz Abt 503 and the SS Pz Abt. Hermann von Salza and -> 62 destroyed tanks/SP-guns for the 33rd SS-Freiwilligen Gren Division Charlemagne and the 11th SS Pz Gren Nordland Division -> i.e. grand total 542 tanks/SP-guns destroyed. Thus, this data is certainly cross-checked by both the German and the Soviet references. Hence, the claims and losses can be said to be true and confirmed.

Now, the Soviet Marshal I. S. Konev wrote in his memoirs (Konev, I.S., Year of Victory, Moscow, 1984) that the Soviet army lost 800 tanks/SP guns in Berlin during 20.4.– 2/3.5.1945, which is equivalent to four or five tank divisions.

As we know that the sSS Pz Abt 503, the SS Pz Abt. Hermann von Salza, the 33rd SS-Freiwilligen Gren Division Charlemagne and the 11th SS Pz Gren Nordland Division destroyed exactly 542 1st Belorussian Front’s tanks/SP guns during that time period, we then know that at least 258 tanks/SP guns (if we believe that Konev even figure 800 is correct, quite likely it’s rounded down, but let’s take it as a fact) were most likely destroyed by Pz Division Müncheberg and perhaps together with 18th Pz Gren Division (800-542=258). Therefore, we can fairly well assume too that these remaining 258 tanks/SP guns destroyed btw 20.4. – 2/3.5.1945 belonged to Marshal I. S. Konev’s 1st Ukrainian Front. Thus, we only need to verify the Soviet stats on 1st Ukrainian Front’s tank/SP gun losses and that’s it then, cross-checked and confirmed. However, this still leaves open the question, who exactly destroyed those 258 tanks/SP guns? Pz Division Müncheberg quite likely, but this still needs verification. But the problem is that there’s very little info available about Pz Division Müncheberg and its actions during the final days in Berlin.

Hope this helped a bit more.


AJJ

BTW Kamen Nevenkin’s book, Fire Brigades, The Panzer Divisions 1943-1945, covers a little bit of Pz Div Müncheberg actions.

 

Thank you very much for the trouble you took in writing such an informative post directly addressing my query.

I hereby nominate you a Promising Rogue (for whatever that's worth ) and am providng you with some positive reputation (meaning that grey bar under your post count will change into a small blue medal ribbon, but that's your first one here )

 

Hi Za Rodinu,

You're welcome. No trouble at all, after all AFAIK the purpose of this forum is to share info. Thank you.

I noticed I made some mistakes, because I relied solely on my memory, I shouldn't have done that, my mistake and my apologies for that. Thus, I need to correct my mistakes.

Marshal G. K. Zhukov’s 1st Belorussian Front’s 542 tank/SP-gun losses (total destroyed) and 1076 (total losses, includes damaged and other losses) within 12 days (20.4. – 2/3.5.1945); -> this is correct!

The Soviet Marshal I. S. Konev wrote in his memoirs (Konev, I.S., Year of Victory, Moscow, 1984) that the Soviet army lost 800 tanks/SP guns in Berlin during 20.4.– 2/3.5.1945, which is equivalent to four or five tank divisions; -> This is correct too.

Fey’s book; Fey, Will, Armor Battles of the Waffen-SS, Mechanicsburg, 2003; does give exactly the same figures as the Soviet statistics; -> this is correct too.

However, while cross-checking how the figures are divided among units, I noticed that the 33rd Waffen SS-Freiwilligen Gren Division Charlemagne (W-SS Gren Abt. Charlemagne, W-SS Gren Jagdkommando (tank hunters under Weber and Fey) and attached circa 100 - 150 Hitler Youths and Volksturm Militia plus about 100 police officials) under command of Hstuf. Fenet solely destroyed 62 tanks/SP-guns with Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks on this particular period of time, 20.4. – 2/3.5.1945.

Furthermore, while cross-checking the remaining 480 destroyed tanks/SP-guns for the same time period of 20.4. – 2/3.5.1945, this figure of 480 has to be divided between the W-sSS Pz Abt 503, the W-SS Pz Abt. Hermann von Salza, the rest of the remaining 11th W-SS Pz Gren Nordland Division (W-SS Pz Gren Rgt Norge (Norwegians) under command of Stubaf. Saalbach, W-SS Pz Gren Rgt Denmark (Danish) under command of Stubaf. Vollmer, one company of Swedes and Finns under command of Hstuf. Pehrsson, one company of Latvians and Estonians under command of Ostuf. Nielandis and a platoon of Belgian W-SS Pz Grenadiers) and with the elements of Kampfgruppe Mohnke.

The grand total 542 tanks/SP-guns destroyed is true and confirmed (cross-checked by both the German and the Soviet references). However, that figure of 480 tanks/SP guns has to be broken into units (and maybe even tank/SP gun types).

I should have data (i.e. scores) for the 6 remaining Köningstigers of the sSS Pz Abt 503 somewhere, I'll dig it up, cross-check it and then post it here later. That shouldn't be too difficult.

What's difficult is to break the remaining figure btw the W-SS Pz Abt. Hermann von Salza, the 11th W-SS Pz Gren Nordland Division and the Kampfgruppe Mohnke. Well, let's see what can I do for that.

I hope this clears my mistakes.

AJJ

 

Perfectly clear, thank you. So the task would be to apportion that Soviet grand loss total per units involved, working out in which sectors they were and compare to te allocated German unit sectors . Possible in theory but requiring consultation of Soviet archives and taking into consideration that unit zone of operations borders were not geometrically determined, quite the opposite.

Of course it would be great to know as well what loss causes the Soviets would have determined, and I suppose a significant number would be infantry AT weapons, considering the closed urban terrain.

But I'm preaching to the parson, I guess

 

Hi,

The scores of Waffen sSS Pz Abt 503

Köningstigers’ confirmed knock outs i.e. usually burned down tanks/SP-guns during 20.4. – 2.5.1945 by date:

20.4.1945: Hscha. Körner 7+ T-34/85s (7 confirmed) and Ustuf. Schäfer 5+ T-34/85s (5 confirmed) at the edge of Straussberg towards Altlandsberg.

21.4.1945: Hscha. Körner 12 T-34/85s (12 confirmed) and Ustuf. Feige 3 T-34/85s (3 confirmed), Feige is killed by a rifle grenade head shot. On the road March to Berlin.

22.4.1945: Uscha. Diers (Köningstiger #314) 1 JS-2 (JS-2 confirmed) at Teltowkanal Bridge. The last six Köningstigers are already in action with the 33rd Waffen SS-Freiwilligen Gren Division Charlemagne.

23.4.1945: Hscha. Körner 1 JS-2 (JS-2 confirmed) at Teltowkanal Bridge. Ustuf. Gast takes the command of the Köningstiger #314 as an interim commander.

24.4.1945: Ustuf. Gast (Köningstiger #314) 1 ISU-122 (ISU-122 confirmed) at Teltowkanal Bridge and Uscha. Bender 4 T-34/85s (4 T-34/85s confirmed) on Mecklenburgishenstrasse in Neukölln.

25.4.1945: Ustuf. Gast (Köningstiger #314) 3 T-34/85s (3 confirmed) near Jahnstrasse. Other 5 Köningstigers knock out several tanks (50+?) with the 33rd W-SS-Freiwilligen Gren Division Charlemagne, no confirmed data, except 1st Belorussian Front’s remaining enemy caused losses for the day; 52 tanks/SP-guns.

26.4.1945: Ustuf. Gast is wounded and Uscha. Diers takes the command of Köningstiger #314 back. All six Köningstigers operate with the 11th W-SS Pz Gren Nordland Division and the 33rd W-SS-Freiwilligen Gren Division Charlemagne. The W-sSS Pz Abt 503 is subordinated to the 11th W-SS Pz Gren Nordland Division. Both the 33rd W-SS-Freiwilligen Gren Division Charlemagne and the 11th W-SS Pz Gren Nordland Division are under command of Brig.Fhr. Kruckenberg.

27.4.1945: Hscha. Körner 1 T-34/85 (T-34/85 confirmed) and Ustuf. Schäfer 1 T-34/85 (T-34/85 confirmed) on Kurfürstenstrasse and at Halensee station.

28.4.1945: Attack at Luisenstadt is pushed back. The 33rd W-SS-Freiwilligen Gren Division Charlemagne is supported by one Köningstiger. No confirmed data on knock out tanks, except 1st Belorussian Front’s enemy caused losses for the day; 75 tanks/SP-guns.

29.4.1945: Uscha. Diers (Köningstiger #314) 1 JS-2 and 3 T-34/85s (JS-2 and 3 T-34/85s confirmed) and Uscha. Turk 3+ T-34/85s (3 T-34/85s confirmed) at Potsdamer Platz in the direction of Anhalter station. Uscha. Bender is wounded and replaced by Uscha. Semik. Hscha. Körner, Ustuf. Schäfer, Ustuf. Bromann (in absentia) and Stubaf. Herzig are decorated with RKs by Brig.Fhr. Mohnke.

30.4.1945: Uscha. Diers (Köningstiger #314) 30 T-34/85s (30 T-34/85s confirmed) at the Reichstag and Uscha. Semik 1 T-34/85 (T-34/85 confirmed) at Halensee station. Uscha. Semik is wounded and replaced by Oscha. Stolze. Uscha. Turk’s Köningstiger is damaged at Potsdamer Platz and recovered and repaired within 3 hours.

1.5.1945: Oscha. Stolze 5 T-34/85s (5 T-34/85s confirmed) at Halensee station and Ustuf. Schäfer 4 T-34/85s (4 T-34/85s confirmed) on Friedrichstrasse in the front of Weidendammer Bridge. Uscha. Turk’s Köningstiger is abandoned at Potsdamer Platz.

2.5.1945: Ustuf. Schäfer 1 JS-2 (JS-2 confirmed) near Schulenburger Bridge and Hscha. Körner 1 JS-2 and 2 ISU-122s (JS-2 and 2 ISU-122s confirmed) on Reichstrasse. The remaining five Köningstigers are lost during the break through attempts. Ustuf. Schäfer’s Köningstiger is destroyed by the captured 88mm AA gun. Ostuf. Lippert’s Köningstiger is destroyed by its crew. Hscha. Körner’s and Oscha. Stolze’s Köningstigers are abandoned. Uscha. Diers (Köningstiger #314) is destroyed by its crew.

Thus all the six Köningstigers of the W-sSS Pz Abt. 503 were lost in Berlin battles.

Total confirmed score (20.4. – 2.5.1945):

Köningstiger #314 under command of Uscha. Diers 2 JS-2s + 33 T-34/85s and under command of Ustuf. Gast ISU-122 + 3 T-34/85s.

Köningstiger under command of Hscha. Körner 2 JS-2s + 2 ISU-122s + 20 T-34/85s.

Köningstiger under command of Ustuf. Schäfer JS-2 + 10 T-34/85s.

Köningstiger under command of Uscha. Bender 4 T-34/85s, under command of Uscha. Semik T-34/85 and under command of Oscha. Stolze 5 T-34/85s.

Köningstiger under command of Uscha. Turk 3 T-34/85s.

Köningstiger under command of Ustuf. Feige 3 T-34/85s.

Grand Total confirmed score of W-sSS Pz Abt 503 (20.4. – 2.5.1945): 5 JS-2s, 3 ISU-122s, 82 T-34/85s = 90 tanks/SP guns.

Unconfirmed score quite likely adds some 50 - 70 tanks/SP guns for W-sSS Pz Abt 503. E.g. Ostuf. Lippert's claims or scores cannot be found - Lippert commanded Feige's Köningstiger after Feige got killed. We also well know that on 2nd May Oscha Stolze and Ostuf Lippert changed the command of their Köningstigers btw themselves.

Well, anyway let's stick with confirmed score of 90 tanks/SP guns and settle unconfirmed later. Nevertheless, the confirmed score already gives a quite good kill ratio of 15:1 for W-sSS Pz Abt 503.

This still leaves 390 (480-90=390) destroyed tanks/SP guns for the W-SS Pz Abt. Hermann von Salza, the rest of the remaining 11th W-SS Pz Gren Nordland Division (W-SS Pz Gren Rgt Norge, W-SS Pz Gren Rgt Denmark, a company of Swedes and Finns, a company of Latvians and Estonians and a platoon of Belgians) and with the elements of Kampfgruppe Mohnke.

Almost an impossible mission to cross-check that, but hmmm...

Za Rodinu, you're right, I'm sure too that the most scores were done by infantry AT weapons, namely Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks as with the case of the 33rd W-SS Gren Division Charlemagne.

Absolutely the Soviet data is essential.

Hope this helps again.

AJJ

 

AJJ

I have to question Georg Diers confirmed 30 kills on April 30, 45

Diers was interviewed a couple times by an acquaintance some 10 years ago and was asked his total score for his term in the W-SS Abt. and Diers told him from his first take over of the König till wars end he had 39 victories.

Sadly we do not know confirmed a total of the ehavy Panzer unit from their existence to the fatal blows on them only some 350-400 are told as being shown but where actually the war daily book has been lost forever and it is really only by private diary and recollections of the few living members back in the 60-70's that we have anything to show for an assemblance of a record. the same can be said of H.V. S. do not think they have 300 plus kills to their credit but many as stated earlier were from Grenadiers armed with Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks of which their were many

 

Hi Erich,

Schneider writes in his book, Tigers in Combat Vol. II, that Diers knocked out 30 T-34s on 30th April. Fey descripes the same in his book, Panzerkampf im Bild. Panzerkommandanten berichten. 1st Belorussian Front’s enemy caused losses match also well for all W-sSS Pz Abt. 503 claims.

While serving in armor(ed) troops long time ago, a friend (who's quite well known armor commander) met Diers also and Diers told the same as Schneider (my friend didn't really interview Diers, just social discussion btw tank commanders).

As for total of 39 victories, those happened in Berlin btw 22.4.-2.5.1945 with Köningstiger number 314 under command of Diers and Gast. E.g. Fey writes according to Diers, direct quote:

The JS-2 tank that Diers with Köningstiger 314 knocked out on 22th April was his 40th victory. Thus the total victories for Diers is somewhere around 74+ tanks. E.g. on 19th April Diers with Köningstiger 314 knocked out 13 tanks in 19 minutes.

Of course all figures, both claims and losses maybe more or less right or wrong, who really knows the exact truth.

Anyway, the link I posted earlier does give one of the best stats from the losses of the Soviet side. But it does need a lot of cross-checking and it doesn't break into very detail info on daily basis.

I hope this answered your question Erich.


All the best,


AJJ

 

I stand corrected and this what happens when you do not have the data point blank in front of you.............noted 39 kills in Berlin, 74 Soviet Panzers destroyed total as per conversation and signed photo

 

Hi Erich,

You're welcome.

It would be nice, if current Russian historians and researchers would go through the Soviet data in detail and write books or research papers of it. A lots of missing pieces would fall together.

Heck, collecting and researching data is like assembling a huge puzzle without a picture, a piece from here, a piece from there, checking, cross-checking... and sometimes very frustrating and sometimes real fun (especially when the pieces fit together).

All the best,

AJJ

 

Hi Erich,

I stand corrected too, you're right on Diers total victories, that's 74+ like you said. I made corrections above.

JS-2 on 22th April was Diers's 40th victory. 40+34= 74 confirmed victories. 39 in Berlin btw 22.4.-2.5.1945 with Köningstiger number 314 under command of Diers and Gast - Gast 5 and Diers 34, together total of 39. Unconfirmed number for Diers falls somewhere btw 25-40.

Btw, do you have exact numbers for the W-SS Pz Abt. Hermann von Salza and the rest of the 11th W-SS Pz Gren Nordland Division?

I'm going through my archives, but that will take some time. For the timeperiod of 22.4.-2.5.1945 at least we know for sure that 390 tanks/SP guns of the 1st Belorussian Front (1st GTA and 2nd GTA) were knocked out by the 11th W-SS Pz Gren Nordland Division (including the W-SS Pz Abt. Hermann von Salza) and the KG Mohnke.

However, during the same timeperiod 22.4.-2.5.1945, they also knocked out some the 1st Ukrainian Front's tanks/SP guns (3rd GTA and 4th GTA). Hence, the total number is higher than 390 tanks/SP guns. The problem is that the 1st Ukrainian Front's stats are quite vague and the KG Mohnke's actions are even more less known. Actually, AFAIK, the KG Mohnke's AARs and Mohnke's own debriefings/interrogations are still classified until somewhere around 2022-25.

All the best,

AJJ

 

Nothing to do with this thread, but I love your trampoline slonik!!!

(thread highjacking over)

Cheers

 

Will Fey's account of his Normany 'kills' is frankly unbelievable. He claims 88 kills in the text and 70 in the diary. Compare this to Schneiders claim of 227 for the ENTIRE Unit! His claim of 15 Shermans on 7th August is demonstrably fiction. Clearly he is not a reliable source.
Overclaiming was rife and officialy recognised by the 50% discount applied to all claims when they were collated.

 

Hi m Kenny,

I don't know Will Fey's total victories nor his victories in Normany well enough. I haven't cross checked them, however the little I know, Fey did knock out a lot of tanks/SP guns for sure and AFIAK he's well respected armor commander among armor commanders regardless of nationality.

All authors of any books make minor figure errors that's for certain. Maybe someone here knows Fey's victories for sure; i.e. somebody who has done research and cross checking on the matter.

Sorry, I couldn't help more, but I do hope this helped a bit.

AJJ