Poll: Patton- hero or bully

Yes?

 

Both, perhaps?

 

I agree with you there, Kai. A good result for the poll would be 20 x 'Hero', 20 x 'Bully'.

IMHO Patton was a complex mixture of both.

 

"I didn't see the movie and I didn't like the son-of-a-b****"

-S/Sgt. Henry D. Padgett, Jr.,
U.S. 832nd Amphibious Group, 7th U.S Army, MTO....

My Uncle...

MARNE

 

Always thought Patton was way too overated.

 

Actually being in command you cannot be a nice chap or things won´t run smoothly. I recall reading that Zhukov said severally " You´re not a General! You´re a bag of shit!" to those who had not done well.

And in the end that´s all that matters, success. If you should decide which Generals you´d like to have in your army, say from both the Allied and Axis sides, Patton probably would be there in TOP 3-4,right?

 

He certainly is in many cases, but he had his moments.....

 

Most certainly overated. He was much like Monty in that he was able to manipulate and use the media to promote an image of himself. However, when faced with determined opposition which would require a change a tactics I think he was unable to do so. For example, look at his conduct in the campaign in Lorraine. He is unable to counter the german counter attacks that fought. Him. His best apitaph is probably that he he was more like Monty than he would like to have admitted.

Ross

 

I'd like to vote for both please.
Hero & Bully,
The two titles are far from mutually exclusive.

Cheers,
Adam

 

Sorry I could not vote, if you had a third option that Patton was both then I would have voted and you left out the fifth option don’t know.

 

Cant answer to either.

Patton was lucky in his assignments, or his superiors were smart in putting him in the right places.

After Kasserine, he led a blitz into a vacuum between the 1st Army & 8th Army.

On Sicily he headed Nth West when the Axis were heading East. His later attacks towards Messina were often ill-advised and expensive to the US Forces.

Normandy, Monty & Bradley fought the hard fight, Patton shot through the Avranches Gap and blitz into a void. He struggled with set piece battles and was only happy after the Rhine Crossings. The relief of Bastogne is a quandry, his tactics were "Bull in a China Shop" but maybe this was the right time for them, maybe Horrocks needed to fire up XXX Corps in the same way.

But, overall he is overated, there were some better US Army Generals who were happy to avoid the spotlights.

 

At Kasserine Pass the German casualties were 989, Italian 535, and American over 6000 under the leadership of General Lloyd Fredendall, who liked to lead from the rear.

Patton replaced Fredendall. Who do you like better, Fredendall or Patton ?

 

Thats not the question, but Patton arrived after the assault, would he have done better on the defense???

His "blitz" through to Gafsa was badly planned and led against minimal opposition. But this was his first real battle. Notice that Bradley got II Corps for the assault on Bizirte.

 

Imagine that, Euros that will sing the praises of Sitzkrieg Monty also discount General Patton.


If he was such a poor commander, why did the GERMANS fear him so? The same German high command that would MUCH rather face off against Monty than Patton

They knew Patton would fight, and do a damn good job at it

 

Have they tooken over Afrika yet?!

They are at Berlin sir!

I just made that up.

 

The thing that my Uncle in the U.S. 832nd Amphib. Gp., 7th Army in Nor. Africa/ Sicily w/ Patton; told me that has stuck with me ever since I mentioned Patton to him and what he thought of him was this....

...."Son, they make him out to be the greatest general for our side during the war. The thing of it is, is that other generals were just as good if not better than him and they accomplished similiar types of objectives as he did and did it with less casualties."....

Regards,
MARNE

 

yet another quote that shows how donhill this forum has gone...

Too many arrogant Yanks who think they know everything and everyone else is wrong.

Freakin sick of this stupid attitude.

 

yet another quote that shows how donhill this forum has gone...

Too many arrogant Yanks who think they know everything and everyone else is wrong.

Freakin sick of this stupid attitude. </font>[/QUOTE]Whoa, geez Red, ITS ME here.

I've been here ages, and posted loads about the great efforts of dunkirk and the battle of britain, so to call me anti british in ww2 is crazy!

if you notice, i never said that line of thinking was wrong, I was just pointing out the line of thought!

What gives red?

 

Patton was better at corps level than Army. Remember the 'Peter Principle' story? It's on a similar thread.

Bradley was the best Army commander of the Americans in my view.

As for the Monty bashing. Grow up !! He was not cautious 'stitzkrieg' General that many writers from across the pond have suggested. As for beeing inflexible Mareth and Sicily should point at his flexebility.

 

I do also believe that it´s better that your own men "fear" you (=the commander) more than the enemy. I think that Patton especially tried to put that one into practice. In the army and very much so in the war you cannot give the men "free hands" really or you´re bound to loose your commanding power over them. So what we see as "bullying" might not all be that meaningless.

Ever had the chance for instance to command a group of officers in real life? I tried and that was totally impossible like someone else has said before in military history. Then again I did not make any threats...