Hi Guys, Can anyone tell me anything about the RWF in WW2 which Battalions served where. I`ve tried surfing the net up have drawn a blank?
53rd Welsh Division had several RWF battalions. 53rd Division http://www.britisharmedforces.org/i_regiments/roywelchfus_index.htm Battle Honours WW2 The Second World War: Dyle, Defence of Escaut, St. Omer-La Bassée, Caen, Esquay, Falaise, Nederrijn, Lower Maas, Venlo Pocket, Ourthe, Rhineland, Reichswald, Goch, Weeze, Rhine, Ibbenburen, Aller, North-West Europe 1940 '44-45, Madagascar, Middle East 1942, Donbaik, North Arakan, Kohima, Mandalay, Ava, Burma 1943-45 1RWF was in 2nd Div the 1940 campaign & later Burma. http://www.burmastar.org.uk/welsh.htm http://www.battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/2nd_division.htm Found this http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/ww2/pages/e_p_jones.shtml
Guys thats amazing thanks ever so much. one final question, can you point me in the right direction for a list of all the RWF VC winners?
I`d also like to know more about.. 4th 6th 7th battalions territorial army Normandy, Belguim, Holland, Germany 1944/1945 Can anyone help?
Try and get a copy of this book. It'll mention the RWF bns that served with 53 Div The History of the 53rd (Welsh) Division in the Second World War Brigadier C N Barclay or Red Crown and Dragon: 53rd Welsh Division in North-west Europe, 1944-45: Patrick Delaforce For an overview of the Regt try, THAT ASTONISHING INFANTRY: The History of the Royal Welch Fusiliers 1689 - 2006 Glover, Michael
FWIW, the RWF had a "better" WWI than WWII, particularly the 1st and 2nd Battalions. They were in the thickest of the fighting, and the 1st Battalion is famous for its stand at Mametz Wood. The well-known "war poet" Siegfried Sassoon served with both the 1st and 2nd Battalions. And the 2nd Battalion's medical officer, Dr. J. R. Dunn, attached to them from another unit, wrote the definitive account of the war in the trenches in The War The Infantry Knew. BTW, they are even today obstinate about spelling it "Welch" instead of with an "s".
Cough, splutter!!! The 1st Bn were nearly decimated at Dunkirk, they made it back to the UK with survivors numbering into double figures, having fought valiantly from the Belgium border through France and onto the French beaches. Later they deployed to India, and fought in two of the most hard fought bloody battles of the Far East, namely Donbaik and Kohima, and with distinction. David Graves(Lt RWF) the son of WW1 Poet Robert Graves was killed at Donbaik and recommended for a VC. These guys then continued the fight towards Imphal and into Burma. I have met many of these men, and awsome company they are. The 2nd Bn, fought at Madagascar, although no major set battles there, none the less a nasty series of actions, that the British excel at. They later moved into Burma and fought along Railway Corridor. Their CO at Madagascar Hughie Stockwell....Later commander at Suez and Dep SACEUR...Not bad for a guy who failed Staff College!!!! Meanwhile, their TA counterparts the 4th, 6th and 7th Bn, landed at Normandy on about the 23rd June 1944, and fought with distinction in most of the major land battles across North West Europe. Want to know more...try The Red Dragon by Lt Comd Kemp, its out of print, but available used online. Thanks
I beg to differ with that last statement. What happened in dunkirk is far more complex than previously thought and I'm afraid a forum like this one is not the proper space to debate the matter.
Hi Alison, Dunkirk highlighted many real deficiencies in the BEF. My own battalion (1RWF) took a very real beating, I accept that Dunkirk was a stain. My statement which spoke about their actions throughout WW2 was more in response to what I perceived to be a very glib remark about my regiment. I have had the privilege to meet and socialise with these guys who did fight across Europe and the jungles of Burma. JUM1801 was entitled to his/her view of my regiment. I'm quite entitled to lay out a couple of points in response. Thanks
www.53rdwelshdiv.webs.com Plenty of stuff up and coming on 53rd Welsh Div, and RWF Bns... Hope to finish off a load of stuff on 4, 6 and 7 Bns RWF this week - its always changing and developing on there and a goldmine of unpublished information (basis of my first book infact...)
Sorry for such a late post. "Glib"? Hardly. No one can be glib about the death and maiming of soldiers in war. My position, which I continue to hold, is that the RWF in WWI had a "better" war than in WWII. This is somewhat related to the the sense it is used with in regard to an individual having a "good" war: that is, distinguished by a great deal of combat, recognition, decorations. This term and concept I am familiar with from reading the memoirs of various British officers serving on or in the Frontier, Boer War, WWI, WWII or the Falklands. And I'd bet that some British officer, if not a squaddie, has used that term in a book within the last 6-8 years about what militarily has been known as the "GWOT". While the term does connote individual acts of bravery when used in connection with a single person; with regard to formations it has more to do with the history of the unit during the whole war; such as how often a unit and its sub-units came under fire; how heavy the losses were; how effective it was; and what reputation, if any, it may have had with superior officers. And, perhaps unfairly, it has most to do with how well known the unit was, either in the military or the with the public at large. That's how I meant it at least. And based on that, I think its very hard not to agree that the RWF had a "better" WWI than WWII. For one thing, it had a total of, if I recall correctly, some 19 battalions in WWI. Even using late-war standards of greatly reduced battalion size, that's about as big as a division. It took correspondingly huge losses. The regular battalions, 1st and 2nd, were very well known in WWI, being hardly ever out of action for more than a few days. 1st Battalion's stand at Mametz Wood, in which it was terribly mauled, is legendary; and both battalions were in the thick of Passchendaele and suffered many casualties. But without a doubt the key factor which made for the RWF's "good" WWI was the unusually high number of authors who served in its ranks and later wrote about their experiences. The poet Siegfried Sassoon, 1st and 2nd Battalion, is the most famous. There are also Welsh poet/artist/essayist David Jones and poet Hedd Wynn, both in the 15th Battalion. Both Sassoon and Wynn died in combat. The most famous memoirist is Robert Graves, 1st and 2nd Battalion, who wrote what may be THE greatest single memoir of a British soldier in WWI: Goodbye To All That. His accounts are famous for its terribly unflattering depiction of several snobbish,bullying and even cruel superior officers in both battalions. A personal favorite is The War The Infantry Knew by Capt. J.C. Dunn, who was attached as a surgeon to the 2nd Battalion, which stands as a masterpiece of the daily life of soldiers in the trenches. So it really is about how well known the WWI "Welch" were in comparison to the WWII Welch. The blood the Welch spilled on Dunkirk beach was just as precious as that spilled 25 years earlier in the trenches at Ypres. Nor were the WWI bunch any braver or better soldiers. They just had better press.
"Both Sassoon and Wynn died in combat." ?REALLY? Sassoon died in the 1960s... As for 1 RWF at Dunkirk, yes they took a clobbering but equally made a good account of themselves during the fighting its a bit of a nonsensical argument to say its a 'stain' on their record.
Forgive the "necro post", but I only now saw your comment about my grievous error concerning Sassoon's "death". You are quite correct of course: Sassoon, while twice wounded in the war, died in 1967. I conflated Sassoon with his very close friend, poet Wilfred Owen (Dulce Et Decorum Est). I confused Owen's death (a mere one week before the Armistice) while serving with the Manchesters, with Sassoon's having been seriously wounded the same year and sent home for the duration. As for the "stain" comment, that is neither my comment, nor my attitude.
hi i have started to look back at my late fathers career in the army . and have now found out that he started in the royal welch fusiliers in 1944. but ended up in the royal anglians after being in the suffolks and the norfolks. he was at d day and i have photos of him in the ardennes . does this mean he was in the 4th / 6th / 7th territorials. any information would be grateful.. thanks
