Wellington HZ355 from 429 Squadron

Skipper and Erich,

Any suggestions on more questions for my Uncle that would help? Since I am lacking personal knowledge on the history, places, and more would there be anything that would help identify things? I have learned a lot but I have so much to go!!!

Jo Ann

 

Apparently there were more men sent to KZ as punishment. The situation is quite complicated.
here are some paterns
1) evaded, captured, Fresnes, Stalag, evaded (some several times), Buchenwald, Stalag
2)evaded , captured, Fresnes, Buchenwald, Stalag
3)evaded , captured, Fresnes , Stalag.
4)evaded captured, Stalag.

In other words being captured did not always mean being automatically sent to a Stalag, being in Fresnes did not alwyas mean Buchenwald and being in a Stalag could lead you to Buchenwald. Difficult isn't it. I know veterans who have followed these circuits.

Some other things: - Dessoubrie betrayed several dozens of airmen but he also betrayed up to 1500 Resistants!
-the convoy that left Paris for Buchenwald in August 1944 was the last one to leave France.

 

Skipper,

This is what I saw yesterday on Buchenwald from Lost Bombers site:

Halifax MZ531 Information
Type: Halifax
Serial Number: MZ531
Squadron: 76
X1D: MP-D

Operation: Juvisy

Date 1: 7th June 1944​

Date 2: 8th June 1944​

Further Information
"Serial Range MZ500 - MZ544. 45 Halifax Mk.111. Part of a batch of 360 HP61 Halifax Mk.B.111. MZ500-MZ544; MZ556- MZ604; MZ617-MZ660; MZ672-MZ717; MZ730-MZ775; MZ787-MZ831; MZ844- MZ883; MZ895-MZ939. Delivered by English Electric Co. (Salmesbury & Preston) between 11Mar44 and 31Mar44. MZ531 was initially issued to No.78 Sqdn. Airborne 2303 7Jun44 from Holme-on-Spalding Moor to attack rail communications. Cause of loss not established. Crashed in the vicinity of Etampes (Essonne), France. Sgt P.R.Hunt RCAF PoW Sgt W.H.Eggleston Evd Sgt J.F.McGarvey RCAF PoW Sgt G.C.Heddle RCAF PoW WO1 D.Clark RCAF PoW Sgt T.C.Guy RCAF PoW Sgt R.Dodds RCAF Evd WO1 D.Clark was interned in Camp L3. PoW No.8078. Also recorded as having been incarcerated in Buchenwald Concentration Camp. Unable to establish whether this was before capture or following the Great Escape from Sagan (L3). Sgt T.C.Guy initially evaded until captured 22Jun44. Was held in Fresnes (Paris) and Wiesbaden Prisons before being interned as a PoW in Camp L7, PoW No.662
with Sgt G.C.Heddle, PoW No.80153, Sgt J.F.McGarvey, PoW No.80135, and Sgt P.R.Hunt, PoW No.80028. "

I checked the list and there is a a Clark but double check to make sure if you know more. I need to check the other names too.

Jo Ann

 

suggestions for your uncle?

1)Does he remember the food in Fresnes? Apparanetly there were several guards on duty, the older ones wer quite fair and would try to give more food, the younger ones were fantics and would not give enough and throw it to the pows.
2) Does he remember seeing red Cross people either in France or Germany while pow?
3) Does he remember if any of the inmates could talk to the Luftwaffe officer who later got them out of the camp?
4) Was he there when allied soldiers died ? (2 airmen died and several SOE officers were executed /murdered)
5) Did he meet any of the brave Danish police officers who were deported after having helped Danish jews?
6) does he remember being with other airmen in Buchenwald?

 

Skip how close is Lie'ge to Bree in Belgium > ? I have possibly 2 claims by von Bonin North-east of Liege

 

That is correct , John Clark , arrived in Buchenwald on august 20th 1944 with 167 other allied airmen directly from Fresnes, Fresnes is only 50 km from his crash place near Etampes. He was betrayed by Dessoubrie. John Clark (there was also a Don Clark) had camp registration number 78385.

 

LIEGE is not too far , but your claim is north east of it which would be the German border near Eupen rather than Limburg, near Aachen and Maastricht. We are talking about 50km 100km here. If there is no identified crash site south of Limburg, it could be a candidate, but is Von Bonnin's claim around 1 am?

 

Skipper,

Thank you...I will ask and see what he knows. I will post after the call.

Jo Ann

 

ok back to the drawing boards.......

Bake 01:10
Barte 01:12
Kollack 01:00
Htpm Wohlers 01:05

will search further, probably will have to make a plot map of some sort ..... for accuracy

 

Erich and Skipper,

I will re-check what my Uncle said and William Bailey about the times. I think there was mention of 1:00 and 1:15. I will ask my Uncle too if there was an actual time noted. (Did he look at his watch!) Yesterday he said there were 2 ME-110 firing at him. Maybe the length of time from begining of the firing to when they had to bail out.

Just a thought.

Jo Ann

 

Called my Uncle...He is busy today and asked me to call tomorrow.

I am working on information I am getting from the Limburg Province Line (I am still learning about this information and as soon as I understand more I will be able to explain more.) On my to do list for today!

Jo Ann

 

OK, cheers I will do some reading too and will probably have more tomorrow.

 

the sinister fly in the ointment. German Luftwaffe crews will report the area of which the RAF aircraft was engaged and shot down but not where it crashed, so this is something that must be expected and the difficulty in finding a positive is just that ..........

E ~

 

Ok...here goes.

This is from the Limburg line information:

William Bailey (crewman) with my Uncle.

William Bailey

11/06/1943:
Mathieu Van Esser, a miller living in Molenbeersel, and a few other men stood outdoors to look the passing planes, flying in the direction of Germany. At about 01.00 hours they saw that the Germans shot down once again a plane. It crashed in the neighbourhood of Ophoven. They saw 4 parachutes coming from the skies. The airman, after landing, disappeared in a cornfield.
12 /06/1943
The German soldiers had also seen them and searched, in the morning of 12/06/1943, the surrounding farms.
A few corporation workmen found one of the aviators in a reed-plot situated “Op het Goor” (Ophoven-Molenbeersel) They came to ask me if I could take care of him. At about 08.00 o’clock in the morning of 12/06/1943 I was led to the aviator. It was an Englishman, fully dressed in uniform. He spoke a little French and explained me his situation. I hided him behing the “Lossing”-brook in some brushwood and promised him to take him away at 13.00 hours in the afternoon. He gave me a little bag with money in it: 300 Belgian francs, 25 Dutch guldens and some French francs. I told him te keep the money, because he would need it on his trip to London.
At 13.00 hours I returned to the brushwood with a blue overall and a pair of wooden clogs. He changed clothes and we left for the dairy factory in Kinrooi
At the dairy factory in Kinrooi I phoned Louis Vallé, a butcher and cattle dealer in Bree
Louis Vallé was willing to help the aviator. A few hours later he arrived with two bicycles. I helped the airman on the bike, but he could not cycle… I gave him a little push and off they went towards Bree.
(thus Mathieu Van Esser in a letter to J. Bussels, dated 30/07/1976.
J. Bussels published: De doodstraf als risico. Pilotenhulp in Belgisch Limburg. 1941-1944, 1981)
In 2 letters, dated 30/07/1976 and 15/04/1978 (to J. Bussels), William Bailey wrote: “I don’t know the place where I landed. It was not so far from Bree. Mr. Vallé came to fetch me. Together we biked to his home in Bree. Mr. Vallé was about 40-50 years old. He had two sons. The Vallé family were my first helpers.”
Louis Vallé and Fons Bergmans were good friends who had confidence in each other.
Fons Bergmans, born in Weert (Holland) lived in Bree and ran a pub and a pastry-shop in the Kloosterstraat 23. During wartime he became courier in the “Luctor et Emergo”-line between Holland and Brussels.
Louis Vallé visited Fons Bergmans to ask what he had to do with William Bailey. Fons Bergmans had no immediate solution. William Bailey was transfered to the Bergmans’ house where he had to wait several days. Then came Jan Wannée (cover name for Jan Dijkstra), a Dutch courier, to take Bailey to Brussels.
William Bailey (letter d.d. 30/07/1976 to J. Bussels) wrote: “I left Bree on Thursday 24/06/1943 at 17.30 hours. A man, about 40 years old was my guide. He spoke Englih very well. First we travelled by tramcar, later by train to Brussels. At 22.00 hours we arrived. I stayed at several places, in Brussels until 27/06/1943. This day I left, on my own, for Neerwinden. Here I stayed at a castle with 5 jews and two Russians. After the Germans searched the castle I moved back to Brussels. On 13/09/1943 I finally departed for England via Bergen (Mons) and Paris. I arrived in England on 05/11/1943.

I will edit with where it came from...


http://www.erfgoedeisden.be/pagina's/colofon.htm
The Eisden Heritage Trust

Sent to me by Robert Dexters (He is the son of the man (who found my Uncle), Giesbert H. Dexters and the nephew to the Doctor, Albert Dexters, who provided the medical attention and removed the 34 pieces of shrapnel from my Uncle.

 

Erich,

I have a map of Limburg Province that was sent to me to look up the areas, (before names were changed) I can put that into my gallery or email.

Let me know.

Jo Ann

 

My Uncle saw the pictures tonight. He identified "The Captain" as - DeZitter, the picture from:
http://home.clara.net/clinchy/neeball.htm
www.belgiumww2.info


My Uncle is almost positive that the picture of Dessoubrie is "The British Agent" that travelled with the group to Paris.

My Uncle said that the picture of Flore Dings looks like "The Captain's" girlfriend. He said that she was dark skinned. Hard to tell in the B/W picture.

He has been thinking about "The Group" that travelled to Paris from Brussels and remembers a total of nine in the group:

Himself
4 Unknown named Airmen
John "Smitty" Smith (Comete Kinship Line has his information)
The female Doctor
The man calling himself the British Agent
The Guide
(Comete Kinship Line lists Sgt.William Cole and W/O Frank Hugo as arrested the same day) (www.belgiumww2.info listed an Sgt Bill Cole and W/O Frank Hugo and additional W/O Arthur William Edgley and W/O Sidney J. Maxed also arrested the same day)
BTW I am communicating with both sites on the information.

So who is the man that interrogated my Uncle every week in Fresnes and broke his collar bone...tonight my Uncle said that the man was very "Anti-Social!" At least he has a sense of humor about it!

He is ready for more questions....very happy! I call tomorrow!

 

Hello ,

When i checked out the book " Luftwaffe Nightfighters claims " by Foreman-Matthews and Parry i saw that Lt Baake Werner from 1/NJG 1 shot down a Wellington 1k m north of Neeroeteren Belgium.The place were Wellington HZ-355 came down Ophoven is just north of Neeroeteren.So we can assume that Baake shot down this arcraft and not Kollak.I hope that i was able to help with this little info

Greetings
Alain57
Belgium

 

Hi Alain, Thank you for helping. It would be interesting to find out the exact crash site. Were there two or one Wellingtons in those two villages? the one listed in Ophoven is at the location "op de Goor".

Jo Ann, more about dessoubrie: I know much more of this scenario. Dessoubrie was very well dressed in a neatly cut suit with expensive shoes and drove his own black Citroen Traction, he also had a red Simca and smoked Luxury cigarettes. He had many mistresses, but one of these was a beautiful lady called Mme Orsini. This woman was in her mid 40s and had gorgeous red hair. She would sometimes escort airmen from a small apartment in Paris (I can find the addres if needed) and would sometimes give them a kiss to allow the Gestapo to find out who to arrest. Dessoubrie usually took the name tags away so that most airmen could not prove they were soldiers. He never interrogated airmen himsself however. Sometimes they were loaded in a truck and taken directly to the Gestapo HQ. I don't have any details about the SD interrogator.

 

Skipper,

He described the "British Agent" to me as "Stocky, "heavy-set" and from what I understand that wouldn't be Desoubrie.

I will ask my Uncle if he remembers a red-haired woman. That would be in Paris, right?

My Uncle joked last night about remembering the women a lot, said he was a typical guy!

My Uncle kept the pictures to go over them more.

Jo Ann

 

Alain,

Thank you for looking and adding information. I sent you a message.

Jo Ann