Is it possible to reshape destiny

I believe a combination of unnatural dedication and absolute desolation can reshape destiny.

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Here is my opinion

What if i told you that your personality had been predetermined even before you were born?

What shapes your personality?
Your environment shapes your personality.


What is your environment?
To draw a line, you need a point and a slope. The steepness of the slope is encoded in the point the same way your growth and decomposition scheme is encoded in your DNA, even before your birth. The line that we have now is a product of the point and the slope. This idea could be conceived as a seed that has grown into a tree according to the two principles. The characteristics of a tree is predetermined even before the seed is sowed; therefore, the line is also predetermined from the very beginning.

The point is the very beginning of the world, the length of the line is time, and the steepness of the slope is the shape of the world in its infancy. Hence the world we see today is predetermined. Today, and everything that associates with it(Including its environment), is a point on the line, anything beyond that point is the future. Since a line is infinitely long, so is time.

If the environment is predetermined, then your personality, which is shaped entirely by the environment (people, culture, society, history, ect.), is also predetermined. Your personality is what makes you who you are. Everything you do, every thought you have, everything that you have done and will do is a direct product of your personality; therefore, the essence of your being in its totality is also predetermined.


The predetermined future is destiny.

 

Sounds remakably like a Hitlerian quote with all this destiny & dedication stuff.
Triumph of the will and all that.
Can't quite pin it down to a specific speech/text though, more of a general theme.




Cheers,
Adam.

 

Destiny is rubbish. You ask if it can be changed, yet state that everything has been chosen for us. I will be forced to make a decision at some point today, but based on what you claim, my choice was made thousands of years ago, or yesterday, or only minutes before I make it. Then I ask why will I need to make a decision? If the answer is already been made than why force a decision. It can not be predetermined or there is no point in life, or even living it. If as you say, our environment determines who we are and what we do, than why is it my brother and I are complete opposites. We where raised in the same environment, but individual actions taken by ourselves decided who we were, not destiny

 

Cross -- Your analysis fails to consider the influence that each individual has on his own environment. As Otto points out, the effect of free will on personal environments negates any concept of predetermination or destiny. Every action that an individual takes will direct future events but the individual is not programmed to select any one action. The decision is made at the time it is made and the individual has thus influenced his future.

You can look back at the past and say that it had to happen the way that it did because the past is history and fixed in stone. Nothing can predetermine what will happen in the future except to the extent that we know that whatever will happen, will happen. That does not mean it is predetermined now. It merely means that we will make decisions over time that influence our individual futures and our collective futures. Until each decision is made, however, nothing is yet determined and thus there is no pre-destination.

 

Cross - you should also give credit to the sources you used to post that too. Plagiarism isn't looked fondly upon.

 

So is false accusation , especailly by a moderator. I wrote it in Microsoft Word and pasted it. Google any phrase in that article in Advanced Search if you need proof.

 

Otto

Light shines upon things and reflect; We live in an environment and we give feedbacks. I ask you this, has the reflection of light its own free will? To compare the complexity of the mechanism of reflection and that of our mind is pointless, but i think you see my point. Light is the environment, we are objects, and our action is reflection.

Mike

You and your brother don't live in the same environment. Let me give you this example, has there been a day in your life that was exactly the same as another? No.
The environment you come in contact with changes everyday, and strickly speaking, every second, why do you think your brother experiences the same environment that you do? No one can experience the same evironment, not even you can experience the same exact thing twice. The first time you try something will not be the experience when you try it the second time. It is impossible for a man to experience the environment in is totality, only segments of it.
Let me tell you the most apparent thing that's different between your environment and your brother's, you are not in your environment and your brother is not in his, for you experience things in first person view. Even if you and your brother read the same book, you will not go through the same thoughts, and therefore come to the same conclusion. The book is still the same, but the experience is different. It is your interpretation of the environment that counts.

 

Cross -- How can you reconcile your personal philosophy regarding destiny with your closing quote:

"A combination of unnatural dedication and absolute desolation can reshape destiny" ???

If you believe in an inevitable destiny, how can you acknowledge the possibility that destiny might be reshaped? If you do not believe in an inevitable destiny, what is your point in this thread?

 

I believe destiny can be changed by those who are destined to change it.

My point?
1. To know your views on destiny.
2. To see if you think it can be changed.
3. To offer you my explanation.

Right now we are still doing point one.

 

Although I generally do not like to get hung up on definitions, here I think we must. Destiny is defined as an event or series of events which will inevitably happen in the future. For an event to be inevitable, it must be incapable of being avoided or prevented.

You have asked whether anyone can change their destiny. I suggest that (i) there can be only one destiny for all of us, and that is death, and (ii) to the extent the occurrence or an outcome can be changed, it is therefore "by definition" not a destined occurrence or outcome.

Looking at both points together, you ask whether anyone can change their destiny. I respond without qualification or limitation that (i) because the only inevitable aspect of life is death, and because death cannot be avoided, there is no predestined event in our lives which we can control through our actions, and (ii) to the extent our behaviour can in any way change an occurrence or outcome in our lives, that event or occurrence cannot be predestined because if it were, our behaviour cannot change it.

You may argue that through healthy living and advances in medicine, we can live longer that we otherwise might have lived. Also, through dangerous living or self-inflicted wounds we can shorten our lives. That is true but it does not change the inevitability of death -- the only predestined aspect of our lives. Rather, it changes the timing or nature of the inevitable but not the occurrence of the inevitable. How and when we die is not inevitable. You must recognize that because you can determine the time and method of your death if you choose to end your own life. You can choose the time and method of another person's death by killing them.

Those actions do not change destiny because, as stated above, if you can avoid or escape an event (by changing it) then, by definition, you have not effected a pre-destined outcome in any way.

Your response?

 

"Join me Cross, your destiny is with the dark side of the force."

"You don't know the power of the dark side of the force."






Just pulling your leg Cross.

 

Good one, Richard.

Personally, I believe that a person's potential is shaped by his environment. And with that shaping, this is where his role in his society comes in. That, I think is the destiny of that particular person. Whether he will conform or not to his "destiny", i.e. play the role his culture or society imposes on him, conform to his cultural norms, that's where I think a person can choose to reshape his destiny.
Let's put this in context. In a third world country where only a few families control that nation's wealth, a boy born in a poor family would most probably end up poor too when he grows up. In a way, that boy is "destined" to be poor, under the norms of his third world culture. That boy wouldn't be getting a good education from a name educational institution and thus his potential to change his "destiny" would be limited. Plus, he wouldn't be part of the old boy's network of the privileged class.
Take note, I only say limited. Because there will always be opportunities around. One way out of this societal trap is to work his way up in another country. (Which most people in developed countries frown on.) There are other ways, of course.

 

In college, I got a C in philosophy, and I don't know why because I didn't learn a single thing in that class.

This, I do know: my past and present have been heavily affected by "destiny". In several places, I was the perfect person in the perfect place at the perfect time, it wasn't just a coincidence issue.

That being said, I've noticed that some people just exist. They take up space and contribute nothing to their environment.

My belief-destiny exists, but only for some people.

 

Seems like having a goal and working toward that goal can shape the out come to a degree. Destiny and work has a better out come than just sitting around and waiting for something to happen to you.
Genetics has some shape to destiny. If I wanted to be a pilot but had bad eyes then that would limit my career choice.

 

Hard work and genetics do not influence destiny. They influence certain probabilities. As I noted above, a destined event must be one which cannot be escaped. Hard work and genetics will not allow anyone to avoid or escape a destined event. Those influencing factors will only increase the probability or decrease the probability of certain possible -- but not destined -- outcomes.

If you work hard, you may or may not avoid being laid off from your job. You may or you you may not be promoted or get a raise. You may or you may not invent something wonderful or create something beautiful. All of those outcomes are merely possibililities, with respect to which you can influence the probability of their coming to pass. That does not have any bearing on destiny.

The same analysis applies to genetics. If you are genetically predisposed to get a certain disease, you may get that disease but you do not have to get it. Even where you are genetically programmed to have a specific trait, you may be able to take certain steps to change the trait. Thus the genetic trait does not of certainty create any form of predestined condition.

Consider genetics, I think I might add one other unavoidable event to those that all men face (in addition to death) -- No man can be impregnated and carry a child. At least I cannot fathom that not being an inescapable truth!

 

Is this a Nature vs Nurture thing ?
Destiny is sort of a religious deal, used as an explanation for bad news (it was his destiny to go down in flames), or as a set-up in an attempt by a person/group to predict the future in their favor (it is our destiny to rule the world).
More Prophecy than destiny before the fact, and more solace than destiny after the fact.
One of my favorite quotes from Babylon 5 ...
"A religious zealot propelled by prophecy into a position of political & military power ? ... Always a Bad idea."
I saluted you cross ... for persistence ... that counts too.

 

Here's an argument for Destiny: If McCain wins the election, with Palin as his VP, that will be an argument for destiny. She was Captain of her high school basketball team, Mayor, Governor-she's always been a leader.

Furthering that...

When there's a new Prez in D.C., some country that doesn't like us will try a power play. Whomever wins this fall will have their event, but if McCain passes and she becomes Prez, there will definitely be a test of the new woman Prez, and if she handles it well.....