Greetings all, Firstly I would like to introduce myself. A.P.Stacey here pleased to meet you, since my childhood experiences of listening to my elder's tales of war I have had a fascination with this subject. I myself served in the Australian army and among my relatives. number veterans of The Somme’ Dunkirk, The Bomber Offensive 39-45. , Korea. Through research I have been doing recently on Bomber Command it has come to my attention that no Australian Prime Minister has laid wreaths at any of the war memorials that contain some 7200 of my fellow Australians. I feel this is a grave oversight by our politicians. Especially when you consider that of all the men who left this country and fought in combat during WWII only 2% of them actually flew in the hostile skies of Fortress Europe. Yet from that 2% came 20% of the fatalities our Nation sacrificed. I believe that our current Prime Minister Mr. Kevin Rudd is approachable enough to petition on this subject. I would be looking to get an agreement on from him on setting an agenda for a visitation to one of the Memorials, As The Prime Minister is my local member and I am told I went to high school with him {I don’t remember him} I feel it is my obligation to get this issue attended to. At this point I am merely seeking support from interested parties who would like to contribute their input and possibly, when the time arrives circulate petitions supporting this proposal. Thank you for listening and I hope to hear from you soon Cheers. A.P.Stacey kadiachya@gmail.com
AP, I applaud your efforts to get the recognition the Aussie flyers richly deserve! I too am amazed that no PM has ever visited the memorials for the airmen. Most politicians fall all over themselves to get publicity of almost any kind! I certainly think that since you are classmates with the PM, you should definitely write him to encourage his visitation on proper occasions. Please let him know the facts of the sacrifice those brave men performed. They certainly deserve this type of public gratitude from the highest levels and the rest of the citizenry. Perhaps an online petition could be used too to demonstrate public support of such high level recognition of these heroes. Best wishes and warm regards, - JR
Cheers for the response and the salutation much apreciated. As i said i'm buggered if i can remember him but as i feel i should do somthing here we are. I would think that an online poll or petition would at least give me am idea of the number of interesred people i have been hoping that one of the administrators might of been able to of offered a direction to follow along this line but its early days yet. Cheers again.
I hope your request will work out and that the flyers will be remembered. They certainly are on this side of the planet
G'Day! I can think of several reasons why Rudd is forgettable! This is a sad oversight. As was the lack of a memorial in England of any kind until a few years ago. Now there is that fine one at Hyde Park. Australian airmen served with great distinction and I regret that not a great many Australians know about them. I always remember one of them, a man called Newton who gained the VC and was butchered by the Japs after he crash landed. He is one of my school's war dead. It's also tragic the way that Britain has repeatedly failed to recognise Bomber Command. It's also tragic that Australians entering England today have to do so through the Aliens gates. The sacrifices we made for their wars is legion.
Folks cheers for your replies they are heartening and i hope we will see a suitable resolution to this proposal. Skipper do you think a poll or petition of some sort on this thread would prove benificial? Thanks again all.
I for one would add my name to your petition. You have nothing to lose, have you? www.PetitionOnline.com - Free Online Petition Hosting www.ipetitions.com www.GoPetition.com
Za Rod thank you for the link this will prove very handy. by the way do you or anyone know how i make this siggy picture larger so you can read it? Thanks folks
A simple email to komrade kevin is all that is required for him to take his entourage (TWO Boeing 737s) to London or anywhere to lay a wreath. The second 737 is required to carry his adoring media reporters and editors etc etc etc etc. John.
Herakles, "Is this the same man as Kevin 747?" On his rare visits to Australia, he is sometimes referred to as that but i prefer komrade kevin 707. Worn out, prone to mechanical failiure due to age, and unable to do its job without a HUGE support team and continuous maintenance, John.
The Daily Telegraph are trying to get some momentum behind an appeal for a Bomber Command Memorial in the UK. This has secured financial backing from Lord Ashcroft ( of VC collection fame/notoriety ). Sadly, it has already stirred up the usual controversies ( who started bombing/Dresden/it was all a waste of effort? etc etc etc ). With survivors now so thin on the ground, one genuinely fears that the sheer fortitude and courage of the aircrews ( whatever the ethics ) appears almost doomed to be forgotten.
i myself was born in australia and i fully support your efforts to get aussie flyers recognised for their efforts
Martin the only reason they have an opportunity to raise controverial issues about the Bomber Offensive is because there was a Bomber Offensive. So long as there are people like us, those who served may fall from the immediate public eye but will never be forgotten. I have posted this as thread elsewhere but threads seem to get buried in the volume so i've stuck it on here Sep 15th 1943 Low over enemy territory in a loose box formation of a pair of fours the Lancaster’s of 617Sqdn RAF approach a small Dutch town in the darkness only 150ft above the pre midnight landscape. In the gloom a Church steeple reaches skyward. Most of the pilots are survivors of the Dams raid and well experienced to the dangers of crossing hostile skies at such low level. Commander Sqn. Ldr George Holden though a Veteran of Bomber command had only participated in two previous “Ice Cream” trips with the low level specialists and these were standard high level Op’s on board G-George ED 932 was Gibson’s Dams Raid crew. As the small town looms up fast the tall steeple splits the formation. P-Popsie ED 909 F/L H.B.“Mickey” Martin DFC breaks right and Plt. Of. Les Knight N-Nuts ED 912 and Plt. Of. Wilson’s do the same on the left. Holden errors and climbs over the steeple a single gun in the Town opens up only five tracer rounds come up before Plt. Of. Toby Foxlee is returning fire from Martins Lancaster and silences the ground gunners. A lucky shot catches Holden’s Lancaster in the inner Starboard and sets the engine on fire. The Lancaster swerves to port right under Plt. Of. Les Knight and Plt. Of. Wilson’s A/C who are already pulling away as they hear in their headsets the voice of Martin calling them over the R/T “Break outwards”. The 12’000Lbs Blockbuster on board Holden’s G-George detonates on impact. Martin waits and calls the other two who are ok but Gibsons crew are gone. Plt. Of. Spam Spafford (B/Aim) from Australia Flt. Lt. R.E.G. “Bob”Hutchinson (W.Op) formerly of Gibsons 106Sqdn. ,The Two Canadians P/O Harlo Taerum (Nav) and F.Sgt. George Deering.All men who the other crews knew well some before even coming to “Squadron X”. Holden chose duty over his birthday that very morning. He visited the wife of another of the Squadrons veterans Flt. Lt. D.H. Maltby informing her that her husband had crashed the previous night and been lost at sea. Dortmund Ems Canal The remaining Seven A/C arrived at the target but at two miles out a wall of fog cuts visibility 150 to yards they climb a little to see above the soup. Searchlights probe through the murk as the the Flak stationed at the locks along the canal, streams up in a deadly web. Mosquitoes plunge in and out of the murk ducking past the Lancaster’s, hunting the ground gunners watching for the tell tale flash of 20 & 37mm Flak. Sgt. Bob Kellow RAAF (W. Op) in fellow Aussie Les Knights A/C N-Nuts ED 912 hears over the R/T the voice of Flt. Lt. H.S. Wilson “I’m Going in leader” Flt. Of. E. C. Johnson in the bomb aimers position of Knights A/C looks over as the flak screams out of the murk the wings of Wilson’s A/C catch alight the Lancaster overshoots the Canal and piles into the marshy farmland beyond leaving a crater 200 ft wide. One of the Mosquito Pilots Sqn. Ldr. Harold Lisson of looks out to see Plt. Of. Allesbrook peeling into the fog with engines on fire. The flames stream out past the tail of the A/C as it disappears into the fog. Bob Kellow hears Plt. Of. Divall over the R/T. “Leader I can see the canal I’m going to have a crack at it hold on.” Bob Kellow listens but there is no further transmissions from Divall. Les Knight calls “I can see the water; on approach”. F/O Johnson calls from his position in the nose blister. “Jesus skipper there’s tree’s above us” Les Knight yanks on the control stick of the bomber and pulls the Lancaster up sharply. The sounds of crashing tearing Aluminum and splintering timber fills the A/C. Branches smash through the bottom of the fuselage and foliage and timber fill the radiators of the two port engines. The tops of the trees are striped by the thundering engines causing N-Nuts to climb slowly. Both Port engines run rough for a moment, cough, then choke and stop. Les Knight calls Martin on the R/T “Two port engine gone. May I have permission to jettison the bomb sir.” Martin replies quickly, shocked by the other Pilot's formality “For gods sake Les yes.” The Bomb, once released drops to earth and flashes on the ground. The shockwave from the blast throws the A/C around. Les Knight fights to control the kite as the crew begin to throw out the ammo trays and machine guns from the turrets and anything else they can find to lighten the load as best they can. The Lancaster climbs slowly at 110mph up to 1400ft. Harry O’Brien the huge bear Canadian rear gunner has come forward and is in front of the pilots station holding one of the cables that control the rudder which had snapped. Les Knight calls to his crew over the intercom “I can’t hold her, right boys she’s had it, everybody out.” Johnson knocks the forward escape hatch out and the cold wind buffets him. He sits on the edge with his feet out of the plane grabs his chute ring and with the other hand shoves himself out. “Hobby” Hobday scrambles past the pilot as Grayston the Engineer vacates his position lowers himself into the forward hold. Les Knight calls to his friend as he passes. “All the best Hobby” Hobday looks back at his quiet polite friend. “Same to you Skipper” Then he lowers himself into the forward hold. Bob Kellow stands up from his navigation table and looking aft sees the rear gunner Sutherland at the main door who then disappears into the night. Kellow mounts the platform next to the pilot Looks at their young skipper checking him to make sure that Knight has his parachute on Les looks up for an instant and gives his fellow Aussie the thumbs up Kellow returns the gesture then heads forward into the nose. O’Brien is still there and Kellow yells at him. “Righto Harry no more stuffing about lets get out of here” The big Canadian lets go of the wire he had been holding and in response the Lancaster begins to Yaw over to port O’Brien dives out of the escape hatch and Bob Kellow follows suit. Pulling the Harness ring as the tail of the Bomber whizzes past in the dark. Kellow’s parachute opens and he find himself swinging in the air watching the N-Nuts Flies on slowly rolling further to port. Once the Plane is hard over to port she spears into the ground and bursts into flame. Les Knight the young pilot whose skills helped break the Eder Dam was gone. Kellow floats to the ground rolls on the wet grass stands and looks around. Plt. Of. Geoff Rice H-Harry ED 936 tries to bomb for an hour but A/C finally too badly holed to be airworthy so he jettisons the ordanance and heads home F/Lt. David Shannon L-London ED 929 is over target for 75 min when finally Len Sumpter calls he can see the canal “Bombs Gone” 11 seconds later a flash and a thud, the Tow Path on one side of the canal is wrecked but the canal itself still holds water. “Mickey” Martin with his all Aussie crew is an hour and a half over the target Flak and fog foil their efforts. Tammy Simpson the rear gunner calls his skipper to tell him he is running low on ammo. Martin replies “ Save it Tammy you’ll never get the flak we might get a chance to fight our way home yet” Bob Hay the bomb aimer spots it on the 13th pass and Martin holds a steady 360 degree turn out of the fog to find the silver water of the canal again. No flak could see them and Bob Hay has time to direct the bombing run “Left, left, right a shade ok. Bombs Gone” IvanWhittaker slams throttles forward and Martin pulls P-Popsie in hard turn as the Flak at next lock see them and open up. Martin dives his A/C back into the relative safety of the fog, only the thud of the bomb tells of what they had just done. Martin drives Popsie out of the soup at full throttle on an oblique line back over where they had just bombed. The water in the canal is boiling but the earth works is still intact. They bolt back into the murk and home. David Shannon is first to land and is greeted in the Ops. Room by Ralph Cochrane CinC of 5Group. Geoff Rice lands his Kite shortly after, some time later Martin finally lands, the third and last to land of the eight which departed. Bob Kellow walks along a quiet country road lined on either side by a short rock wall, above him the sky greys heralding the dawns approach. Over his right shoulder in a paddock, on the other side of the stone wall he sees a man milking a cow in the lee of a barn. He jumps the wall and approaches the man signaling that he was thirsty. The farmer looks past Kellow to see he is alone, then hands him the bucket. Kellow manages to evade for nearly four months, in time he walks through a guard post at Spanish / Gibraltar Border. Every year the survivors of N-Nuts, six of them gathered on the Birthday of Les Knight to celebrate the Quiet Skipper who sacrificed all. This is a synopsis of part of one of the projects I am working on and it well illustrates an idea I am exploring in “Due respects for Aussie Flyers” thread. Cheers for any input or ideas any of you may have both on this thread and the other. Hope you enjoyed the read and feel free to add info corrections, especially a certain Acting Wing Commander if he has the time.
Yes count me in,i'm a proud Aussie.Australians owe it to those Aussie souls that fought hard for this country,another word for this-The little Aussie Battler! We maybe small back in those days but we gave the japanese a run for there money. Im in. A very warm Cheers
Dear P-Popsie, Or rather A.P. Stacey. At least one of your countrymen KIA in The Netherlands, Mosquito Pilot Mr William Alexander Greenshields (464 Sqn RAAF) is properly commemorated in our country. A street in Zwolle has been named after him. There is a small memorial at the crash site at the Middeldijk in Hattemerbroek for him and his English navigator Edward Harry Norman. Annually wreaths are laid at the site. Both men are buried at Kranenburg Cemetery. Name: GREENSHIELDS, WILLIAM ALEXANDER Initials: W A Nationality: Australian Rank: Flying Officer Regiment: Royal Australian Air Force Age: 27 Date of Death: 27/11/1944 Service No: 409692 Additional information: Son of Robert Eadie and Clara Greenshields, of Port Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Grave 6. Cemetery: ZWOLLE (DE KRANENBURG) GENERAL CEMETERY Best regards, H.G.S. Visscher
i believe that anyone from any nation (as long as their not guilty of war crimes) that has fought in any war deserves recognition & i would be very happy to add my name to your petition friend
As a proud Aussie whose grandfather won a DFC serving 2 tours on Pathfinders, i can think of none who deserve recognition more than those who served in Bomber command. So sad that their sacrifices remain unknown
William Greenshields is my great uncle, my family are very proud of him. I visited Zwolle where is buried in 2008. His grave is beautifully looked after and is in the most beautiful cemetery I have ever visited. It was wonderful to see that he is so well cared for. The towns people of Zwolle, looked after me, a stranger, like i was a visting head of state, they made my day in Zwolle a very special one, and through their help i was able not only to visit his grave, but also the street named after him and the place where his plane came down. I think he and the other pilots Britian and Canada are repected in the highest degree by those who have made them part of their own family and community. thank you Zwolle
You are welcome elm , I was in Zwolle last Spring, Incidentally it's my place of birth, I enjoy going back there because the locals make you feel at home . They have a deep sense of gratitude and respect those who fell for their freedom.
