At what point during the war could the conflict be considered over? Nazi germany, although fierce, were doomed to lose the war because of many things. Lack of resources, bad tactical moves, etc. I just want to know about at what point was the war lost for the time bomb that was Nazi Germany.
From a purely biased I know...point of view...when Hitler and his mates decided to give Britain and France a black eye but not then throw a knockout punch...The rest all fits in neatly afterwards.
In the spirit of sportsmanship its not over till the surrender is signed. But for what I think you were getting at, I would say either the failure of the Germans to secure resolutions vs Great Britain or Russia.
Approximately minutes after it started! IMO, there were too many variables involved with hitlers plans and ideas.
It's either Stalingrad (early 1943) or failure of the Kursk offensive (mid 1943) . The reason I mention Kursk is because the Germans regained strategic initiative (though less great than pre-Stalingrad) after the victorious 3rd Battle of Kharkov.
The Invasion of Poland when the world finally realized Hitler had to be stopped. Barbarossa was another major blunder.
I think as soon as the terms of the non agression pact with Russia were exceeded...........so Dec 1939 or February 1940 ish.
IMO it was lost in late 41/early 42. Two major events happened at that time: the US entry in the war and the failure of the Moscow offensive. The US entry tilted industrial capacity completely in favor of the Allies and made Germany's defeat just a matter of time and the failure of the Moscow offensive removed any chance of a military solution before US production got in it's stride. Up to that point they still had a chance of winning, after they had practically none. The 1942 Stalingrad offensive was a desperate attempt to force a resolution in the East but even if it had resulted in the capture of the Caucasus oilfieds and collapse of Soviet regime the best they could hope for in the west was a stalemate. I can't immagine any scenario where the Luftwaffe achieves air superiority over the British Channel in the face of combined British and US production and without that there is no way they could put the hurt on the western allies in a significant way, the Med was a sideshow.
I would say it was two factors the Battle of Kursk and the Western Allies invasion of Italy which happened at the same time. The invasion of Italy resulted in Hitler having to cancel the Battle of Kursk and send the 1st SS Division Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler to Italy. The two front war had come to mainland Europe and Nazi German was doomed from then.
I agree with this, and that's why I stated the end of Stalingrad/Kursk to be when all "Hope was lost" as the third Reich was truly doomed.
I agree with bigfun 2 minutes after it started, but actual end in sight I think was after N. Africa. We beat their best. A true Allies victory with combined froops.
Other than the 2 minutes time zone, I think it was from the moment they invaded Russia. What were they thinking?? They ran into logistical problems while occupying Austria (whole messy thing of Panzers going out of gas) a nation which accepted occupation and is 1/10000000000000 (not sure if I added enough zeros) of Russia... Surely that was it Cheers...
I think it was when Japan brought the USA into the War at Pearl Harbor. Barbarossa was foolish but I wonder what would have happened on the Russian Front if the US had not come into the War. Without the North African campaign, Sicily, Italy, etc., Germany might have marshalled its resources to at least bring a stalemate to the East. (Not to turn this into a "What if" thread.)
If considering the historical timeline, then when Hitler went east (to Poland or Russia, you pick'em) is when it started "the beginning of the end" clock running. If Hitler would have waited until starting the war in 1946 or later, then they would have been a much more difficult opponent to deal with. For the Japanese, going into China in 1937 started their path to defeat. Had they stayed in Manchuko and bided their time, and then followed the historical timeline, then they might have given it a better go of it against the western allies, but still they would have been pounded into the ground sooner or later.
Easy to look back with 20-20 hindsight and give an answer but I'd like to try and think of the question as: when did the majority of German general staff realise that the war was lost. I imagine the first doubts started to creep in when they were halted by the winter offensive in front of Moscow but even in autumn 1942 they had no idea how much offensive power the Russians were mustering on their flanks at Stalingrad, dismissing reports from the Romanians and Italians of massive troop concentrations opposite them in the time leading up to Uranus - I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the scale of SU operations became clear in German HQ, must have came as quite a shock. I imagine that after the defeat at Stalingrad it must have started hitting home that victory in the East was not going to be happening any time soon, and with only a limited offensive planned for summer '43 (which turned out badly due to delays and strength of defensives) I imagine most generals thought by mid-43 that a German victory wasn't on the cards. North African defeat was neither here nor there, a few German divisions to try and bail Mussolini out after his ill-advised offensive to try and grab a bit of glory for Italy.
I agree with brocher with Nort Africa, I belive this was hitler's major mistake making an alliance with Mussolini. And his Crapy army that had a good ammount of its military equipment dating back to the, first world war also Italy lacked supplies equipment in wich would have freed a lot of german manpower not trying to save him.
