overlord fails.

how about this thought.
one landing "overload" operation, if lost by the allies won't really swing towards hitlers way but if other operation around overload like operation maket garden and the beach war went all wrong would have made a big difference.

You qouted-comments made by churchill !
I think churchil did not like pattern,i am thinking cause he was a threat to monty being top dog in the allies side.

 

Hello!

The most interesting thing for me in this "what if" scenario is, how would the map of Europe would have looked like if the next landing would take one additional year and by that time the soviets would parade through the Brandenburg Gate.
Much bigger part of Europe would have been under soviet influence and that would have changed quite a lot of things in the Cold War era as well.

Ps: Sorry about my rusty english. Nice forum by the way!

 

The remarks by everyone at the top, including Eisenhower, both before and after 6 June make it clear failure was on their minds. Eisenhower stated he had a 'Defeated' announcement written up just in case. But, I've never run across a Plan B or any refrence to what SHAEF or the Combined Chiefs of Staff intended were failure to occur.

 

This 'What if' is one of the most significant questions to be pondered, had the Allies been pushed of the beaches I do believe that the Manhattan Project would have been pushed forward and we would have seen the first 'fat man' dropped somewhere over Germany (preferably near enough to the eastern front) to provide both a conclusion to the war in Europe at least and to make the Russians think twice about moving further than the British/Americans wanted them too.

Fortunatley for those who would have been vapourised in this case Japan was the target for the ultimate research test.

 

Neptune fails how badly how many troops do we recover? The US has two more Aiborne Divisions under training the 13th and the 17th. If enough og the 82nd and the 101st are recovered the could be reconstuted in six months. The US would also have an additinal 4 Infantry Division to use with Operation Dragoon in the Med and Southern France. I leave it to you to define the scope of the Disaster.

As Ever,

Walter L. Marlowe

( Airborne all the Way)

 

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There were more than 30 other infantry and armored divsions available in Britian, or ready for embarkation in the US, aside from the dozen or so used in the intial assualt of 6-9 June. The most difficult units to replace would be the specialized support units used to 'operate' the beachhead. The engineer and logistics battalions used to clear the beach during the opening days and to move cargo across the beach. If those are destroyed or crippled a second landing would be difficult in the same summer. If enough of them are preserved then a rematch is possible that same year.

The total force committed to Dragoon in August/September ammounted to 8+ divsions. Four corps including all the supprot units and two army HQ were ashore by mid September. Barely three weeks. With the capture of the Marsallies/Toulon superport cluster the Allies would have the ability to supply at least three armys in France. This is one of the important reasons why the Germans could not afford to withdrawn many of their mobile field units to the Eastern Front. Reducing the 19th Army to its historical strength of August 1944, or one armored, one motorised infantry, and a handfull of foot infantry divsions guarantees the Allies can quickly establish a entire army group in the French south coast. To effectively interfere with Dragoon the Germans need to leave at least four infantry corps and two armored corps in the south for the 19th Army. I'm unsure even that would guarantee defeating Dragoon. While the Allies may very well decide to cancel or postphone Dragoon the Germans cant be certain of this & at least leaving the 19th Army intact would be very likely.