English vs Briton vs Welsh vs Urqh...

We had the last laugh though Jaeger, Guinness is more popular than Carlsberg in Irish Bars!!
Nice to be back here again!!

 

im a wessex man first,and english 2nd.all the others have english roots too.cromwell seen to that,cheers.

 

Not in Connacht he didnt!!

 

Yep. We did the same at Largs around 200 years later.

 

Go on the lads at Largs!!!

 

Not hard to see why, though; Guinness is alcohol, Carlsberg is coloured water.
Welcome back btw.

 

Achtung !

I don't want my bad name to be linked up with the bottled "making love in a canoe" thing coming out of Denmark.

I'm Norwegian, no Dane.

As for my Celtic friends: You'd hate Denmark. Nothing like Norway nor Ireland, Scotland or Wales. It hardly ever rains. The climate is so warm, people walk around in shorts all the time.

We should all thank the maker for putting us in a place where the climate is such that it rains even though it is so cold you need an extra pair of underwear.

 

Ahhh..the Danes...I went there too...just to vunderfuel vunderfuel kopenhaarrgen...thats an ice cream isnt it?

Anyway...dont watch if you dont like the f word..it comes out twice...

There duty done...but I'm sure this is an Irish p take..
YouTube - Danish language

 

or is that more pints...

YOu drink water?

 

I disagree there is at least some evidence. Hardly defintive I agree but saying no evidence is overstepping things.

As for a Celtic "race". I prefer to avoid that particular paradigm. However there is clearly a Celtic linguistic group and the evidence is it arived in Western Europe after the original settlement of the British Isles.

 

Are you kidding? Why would the Irish stop fighting just because someones been assimilated? Some time ago I read that during a certain period (forget the exact dates but centered around the Norse incursions) that listed the number of monestaries sacked in Irelan. I forget the exact numbers but the Norse had sacked 450 something I beleive and the Irish around 420. Fractious is a term that well describes most of the Celtic cultures.

Well if they have a Norman king I think it can be argued that they did. Mapping the most common language over time might be an interesting project as that would give a clue.

 

Such as? British museums are full of polished Neolithic stone axes which came from the Alps; that doesn't prove we were conquered by a tribe from Central Europe.

Arrived from where? There's evidence it arose in what's now Austria/Switzerland, but that doesn't automatically mean it couldn't just have evolved locally.
The 1960s hippie culture didn't arrive from somewhere, it just evolved.

 

No, it couldn't. You would be as well arguing that America conquered Scotland, since the place is full of MacD's, Burger Kings and Kentucky Frieds.
A king from the British kingdom of Rheged (Scottish/English borders) went down to Gwynnedd in the 7th century AD and ruled as king. Does that mean the Scots conquered Wales?
Queen Victoria's descendants (of German ancestry) have been the Royal family in Britain since 1837, so does that prove Britain was conquered by the Germans?

The most common language in Britain is English. The most common gene pool in Britain proves a link back to pre-Roman Britain; you wouldn't know the Romans, Anglo-Saxons or Normans were here.

 

Well I dont know if you two are about to draw sheilds and axes, but I'm enjoying the history lesson thanks.

 

Yes it can. I just did. What's more there is at least something to my arguement.

Some have made arguments like that. Cultureal conquest by assimilation. On the otherhand there's a big difference between that and having your monarch from another country.

Obviously not. For one thing said king wasn't a Scott indeed it sounds like he was likely a Briton just like those in the kingdom he ruled.

By that point in time the royal families were so intermarried there was little distinction. Much like the case above where you mentioned British royalty moveing from one kingdom to another.

But it has migrated northwards over time. It's a pretty good measure of cultural (or social if you prefer) conquest.

I'd like to see some documentatin of that. I'd be willing to bet that there is a significant Germanic element to the British gene pool and as the data becomes available I suspect that they will be able to differentiate between the pre-celtic and celtic gene pools as well.

 

Not really, it's based on theory. There was no Norman conquest of Scotland, either culturally, politically or socially. You might be misreading influence for conquest.

And taking that to its logical conclusion, Scotland must be the 51st state of America, since we drink coke, eat MacDs etc.

William of Orange was Dutch; the present monarchy is German. We don't consider ourselves either Dutch or German.

I thought you were talking about the Normans? French has never been spoken here except by the Mediaeval aristocracy.
The book I referred to is Blood of the Isles by Professor Brian Sykes of Oxford Ancestors Ltd - Home
Unfortunately, they seem to have removed the synopsis.

 

Yes really. Consider that we are basically argueing about semantics. As soon as you step away from overt military occupation then it opens the game up. If you are only considering the former then Edward I's campaigns in Scotland could be considered a conquest although it didn't last.

I suspect you'd be well into the 60s and maybe 70s if you push that line of reasoning. I wouldn't in particular since so much of that is superficial. Now if your prefered beverage is bud you're lost (and so are we).

I worded that poorly. Having royalty come from an interrelated pool that was European royalty during the period of William is a lot different than having a king from a coulturally distinct group. Of course the counter to that is that the Bruce was decended from Scottish royalty on his mothers side and I beleive that was the source of his claim to the throne.

But didn't it go out of fashion by around the time of Henery II? I suspect that most of the Normans in England and Scottland by the time of the Bruce were speaking English a good part if not most of the time. I could be wrong there.

Thanks for the title. There was a short blurb on Amazon. I've got a friend who is real serious about genetics. Will ask him what he knows/thinks about it.

 

I am coming in rather late to this discussion but I just had a lot of fun catching up on the thread. While I cannot offer the wit of my predecessors who have added a lot of mirth to the conversation, I can enthusiastically recommend The Isles: A History by Norman Davies for those of you who want a primer on the history of the British Isles.