If the Germans had captured Moscow, what do you think would have happened?

Anyone know if the " vodka habbit" continued until the end of war? I recall , I think from "Ivan´s war" that some officer recalled that if the men had not been so fond vodka Germany would have fallen by 1943.

Definitely more courage but not more clever!

Also:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/15/books/15grim.html

The Russian advances into Germany:She describes an army fueled by rage and vodka, whipped into a frenzy by its political officers.

 

From my knowledge im going to say yes, Vodka continued to be part of a soldiers life till the end...... Vodka also contributed to the crimes commited by advancing Red Army soldiers.

Good article, I will try to obtain this book.....

"A Stranger to Myself: The Inhumanity of War, Russia, 1941-1944,", the diaries of Willy Peter Reese, a German soldier who died on the Eastern front, recently published by Farrar, Straus & Giroux.)



P.S.

I know have also heard that quote Kai.

 

Do you know why some soldiers drunk Alcohol before going to fight?

Simple. When drinking Alcohol you won't feel pain, adrenaline pumps better and you reflexes are better. That's why some soldiers drunk before they fought.

And MANY Armies used this tactic, which is not know, but it was something that wasn't allowed, since when drinking to much you could die, no reflexes, no adrenaline and you simply don't know what you are doing.

But for those who don't know some soldiers drunk Alcohol before fighting, for the reasons, which I said before.

NOTE: German army didn't used this tactic! It wasn't allowed. Because an Ideal German is Superior to all races and don't need Alcohol for better outcomes. You could've been arrested when doing!

But I'm not sure if some German didn't do this. I think some really did especially young Soldiers because they were to nervous for what will come.

Owyes, I'm not talking about 1 'Kochgeschirr' of wine but a couple of 'Kochgeschirr' of wine. (Not enough to get drunk)

 

Also because it helped keep them warm in the winter and was something to look forward to as Vodka was pretty much the only luxury the Russians had in the war.

Germans had Schnapps and indulged whenever the opportunity presented itself. In fact when the Russians would raid German supply bunkers large amount of boxes filled with nothing but Schnapps would be found amoung the supplies as well. The Germans were no different and drank as well.

 

You know that you can die when drinking Alcohol when it is Winter. Indeed, it is warmer but you cool down much faster.

I only said that it wasn't allowed, as myself I said some did.

Many boxes were from officers and not from Soldiers. Everything was kept by the Officers.

On the 'Ostfront' regular Soldiers recieved nothing. Almost everything was kept away from them and was kept in stock. Only officers could get something from it.

That's why many Soldiers shot the Gendarmerie who were guarding those stocks.

 

Quote:
Léon Degrelle is one of the most famous Waffen SS soldiers. After joining as a private he earned all stripes from corporal to general for exceptional bravery in combat. He engaged in seventy-five hand-to-hand combat actions. He was wounded on numerous occasions.
​

Sturmkreuz, where did you get your info on Degrelle. According to the link below, he only rose to the rank of Obersturmbannfuhrer and the main hand-to-hand combat he had was with a Belgian priest that objected to him wearing his SS uniform during mass...

Léon Degrelle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, Wikipedia is not the best authority, so if you have other links on him, I would be interested in reading more.

 

The Nazis preached abstinence in the name of promoting national health. But when it came to fighting their Blitzkrieg, they had no qualms about pumping their soldiers full of drugs and alcohol

Hitler's Drugged Soldiers - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime

 

Never use Wikipedia.

Uhm No.

Léon Degrelle went as a Soldier to Eastern front and raised his rank there.

He recieved Nahkampfspange Bronze, Silber & Gold. You only earn them by Hand-to-Hand combat. Bronze = 25 Days, Silber = 50 Days & Gold = 75 Days

He recieved The Deutsche Kreuz in Gold aswell as the Ritterkreuz + Eichenlaub des Eiserneskreuz.

He recieved Infanterie-Sturmabzeichen in Silber

ASWELL as Verwundetabzeichen in Silber & GOLD!

He was numerious times wounded and If you recieve Verwundetabzeichen in Silber & Gold it means much!

Heinrich Himmler also promoted him, but his stripes were turned in that time so it isn't official.

He was Severly wounded when he flew from Russia to Spain. In Russia his plane was shot!


Never use Wikipedia ... It is BULLCRAP!

 

I was talking about Alcohol and from the Ostfront.

At Drugs pills I cannot say anything. So I won't discuss about things I don't know.

 

Alcohol, the people's drug, was also popular in the Wehrmacht. Referring to alcohol, Walter Kittel, a general in the medical corps, wrote that "only a fanatic would refuse to give a soldier something that can help him relax and enjoy life after he has faced the horrors of battle, or would reprimand him for enjoying a friendly drink or two with his comrades." Officers would distribute alcohol to their troops as a reward, and schnapps was routinely sold in military commissaries, a policy that also had the happy side effect of returning soldiers' pay to the military.

"The military command turned a blind eye to alcohol consumption, as long as it didn't lead to public drunkenness among the troops," says Freiburg historian Peter Steinkamp, an expert on drug abuse in the Wehrmacht.


The Nazi Death Machine: Hitler's Drugged Soldiers - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

 

Slonik nothing personal, what are you reffering too?

You two times give my quotes & links of alcohol abuse.
As I said I know they did.

I know Soldiers did as I said.
Public Drunkenness yes, because, Superiority is in the blood that's why it was forbidden to be drunk in public. Also it was against Military Rules.

Anyway, Slonik as I said many Armies did it because for the reasons which Alcohol is good for.

Germany did it. Never said not never denied it. Only said it wasn't allowed (This doesn't mean they didn't, this doesn't mean it's strickly forbidden & this doesn't mean officers don't give their Soldiers alcohol). I know that they drunk. I found enough Bottles and what to do in war to loose stress on? On drugs pills I don't know.

Same as Smoking. Remember "Do you smoke?" "No.." "After this, Tomorrow You'll Smoke"

 

Slo, what SK is saying looks perfectly reasonable even to me

The Red Rabbi can't comment as he is still asleep over a stash he found near Orel during Op Rumiantsev

 

Haha. Don't wake the Red Rabbi

 

Well there is nothing wrong with a bit of 'Dutch courage' as well

 

I dont think we disagree here, I guess the point that I was trying to make was that even while "On paper" it was not allowed, very rarely if ever were soldiers punished for this ( in any nation ).....

Afterall, even Russian soldiers were not allowed to be drunk in public and were not allowed to drink more then they were assigned but that does not mean it never happend.

War is war and some rules are just mean to be broken. Especially if some were for mere propaganda purposes.

Bottome line is that all soldiers from all nations drank and Russians more then the rest, ( in fact Russians still drink more then the rest ).

 

Also medically Alcohol thins the blood, thus soldiers that get hit bleed faster, stemming from the fact that when intoxicated blood platelets that are resposible for making blockages to stem blood loss are not formed as fast and take longer to take effect.

 

didnt' the french army recieve wine as part of their daily ration's or is that just a sterotypical view of them?

 

I believe so.

Every military had some sort of "standard" beverage.

 

That is correct, I have an original French infantry manual from 1940, and 'le vin rouge' is part of the daiy ration.

And part of the infantry squad collective equipment, besides 'le fusil-mitrailleur', was 'le moulin à café' (the coffee grinder!)

Also I find it quite interesting that the entire manual s geared towards offensive action, very little is dedicated to defensive deployment, fortifications are only very light earthworks, etc. All offensive!

 

So they had enough retreating and defending in ww1 huh