BO's "Birth Certificate" - The Plot Thickens

Why is that even an issue if Supreme Court Justices are not supposed to "judge" things based on their values? They are supposed to provide an unbiased interpetation of the Constitution of the United States.

 

Something to remember here guys, it doesn't have to be the Supreme Court's Chief Justice, that is only done for the "prestige" of the Supreme Court. The first one (Washington) set the precedent of the Bible, but that isn't in the constitution either.

While the Constitution does not mandate that anyone administer the oath, the oath is typically administered by the Chief Justice, but sometimes by another federal or state judge (George Washington was first sworn in by Robert Livingston, the chancellor of the State of New York in 1789 ([my addition] he was a fellow Mason as well), while Calvin Coolidge was first sworn in by his father, a Justice of the Peace and a Vermontnotary public who lived in a home without electricity, phone, or running water, in 1923). By convention, incoming Presidents raise their right hand and place the left on a Bible or other book while taking the oath of office.

I know it is only "Wiki", but still:

Oath of office of the President of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I like the section about Franklin Pierce's Vice President King who was sworn into office while in Cuba for his health, and died shortly thereafter. The only official of that high a status sworn in on foreign soil! And LBJ was sworn in aboard Air Force One by a local judge in Dallas.

 

SO it could be the Manager of Starbuck's using the Sunday Comics and it wouldn't be any less binding than had Christ himself appeared on the shoulders of a mob of crippled children and swore him in using the stone tablets containing the ten commandments?

 

Do you expect so much from mear mortals

HP

 

I believe that the individual could simply state the oath without another human or even "diety" holding any book for him/her to rest their hand upon, and the requirements would be fulfilled.

There really isn't anything about the "pomp and circumstance" stated (to my knowledge), it just developed as the expected ritual over the years from Washington using his fellow Masonic lodge memeber and the Bible from that same lodge. I believe that John Adams was the first President sworn in by a Chief Justice. Washington's second inagural was with an Associate Justice, not the Chief Justice.

 

I am unbiased and I expect them to be better than me

So what you're saying is that anyone the "electoral college" presents, who meets the minimum criteria can lay their hand upon anything, swear an oath to whomever and be the leader of the free world....outstanding.

 

That's about it, the ritual is not codified in the Constitution or anywhere else actually. You win the electoral college votes, and you're it bud! Go through the motions, state the oath (that is in the Constitution) in a public venue, and tah-dah you got the job. You don't need to swear an oath to God either, you can simply "affirm" that you will do all that is required to be President. That is in the Constitution.

According to a single source; which was Washington Irving's biography Life of George Washington written in 1859, it has the only reference to "so help me God" being added by George Washington; after accepting the oath. Although there is no contemporary evidence of this, and the only contemporaneous source that fully reproduced Washington's oath and speech completely lacks the religious codicil (Documentary History of the First Federal Congress, Vol. 15, pp. 404-405).

The first newspaper report that actually described those exact words used in the Presidential Oath of Office (so help me God), was at Chester Arthur's in 1881 (The New Administration: President Arthur Formally Inaugurated; The New York Times, Sept. 22nd, 1881) where he answered the final query with the words, "I do, so help me God" and that was probably a personal prayer, not a part of the constitutional oath (it was on Sept 22nd because of Garfield’s assassination). Garfield was the second Republican President assassinated in the span of 16 years after all, Arthur may well have felt a bit of Godly protection was apropos.

The exact time of adoption of the entire current procedure, wherein both the Chief Justice and the President speak the oath, and the; "I do, so help me God" have been added is unknown.

 

So it's safe to assume that there never has been a separation of religion and politics. It's interesting how two things that, on the outside, have such juxtaposition; but, are historically intertwined.

 

Chester Arthur's inclusion of that phrase in 1881 doesn't inter-twin government and religon, only Arthur himself and his Christianity I would think. Nothing wrong with that. I don't care what any given person thinks or believes as per "God" or no "God". Just keep it out of our government as a requirement to serve, and don't require any given religion to have precedence or government support.

 

Very true; but, isn't there an implied need for christian worship: "One Nation Under God" , "In God We Trust" yadda yadda yadda.

Why is the Birth/ Resurection of Christ observed through traditions rooted in pagean rituals ( Christmas/ Tree Easter Eggs).

 

Easier to make money on than everybody sitting at hame reading the bible I'd wager..

 

GOD is not owned by Christians. Jewish, Islam and most all other faiths have GOD as well.

So in GOD we trust covers many. Great Spirit if you prefer that.

HP

 

If you are going to invent a new religion, you want to ease everyone into it gradually rather than abruptly. People resist anything new so you want to minimize the resistance by keeping anything old that you can. You want to be able to show them how their new religion is not much different from the old religion or to at least make them think so.

It's all about marketing and profit.

Bob

 

We are getting far off topic with Christianity being plopped in, but Christianity "borrowed" a great many things from existing religions. Birth in late Dec., Mitraism. Virgin birth, son of God, both Herakles, Egypian Isis/Horus, and the Buddah I can recall. Easter is an extension of the Ostra religion of northern Europe and the Celts, which use eggs as symbols of life forces. Decent into Hades, Herakles again. Flight to escape murder of the Christ Child by the king, Judism (Moses). Most of these were added well after Jesus' death, by persons who never lived during his time.

The borrowing from existing religions was an expedient way to convert those who were being exposed to Christianity in the beginning of the new faith.

In God We Trust has only been on our American currency on and off since the Civil War, I believe the last coin to have it added was the nickle during FDR's time, and One Nation Under God was added to the pledge of alligence during the Eisenhower administration to seperate us from the "godless commies". I'm a little foggy on this next, so don't hold me to it, but I think the In God We Trust wasn't added to paper money (all denominations) until the late sixties. For some reason I recall it being added to the $1 silver certificate first, about the same time the One Nation Under God was grafted onto the pledge.

 

"In God We Trust", when considered in context, is not a non-denominational phrase.

For example, consider a non-denominational prayer in a classroom with 27 Christians and one Jew. In that context, it definitely is a denominational prayer. All one has to do to confirm this is to ask the one Jewish child what his thoughts on the whole subject is.
As an extension of this thought, since this country is predominately Christian, "In God We Trust" is a denominational statement and should be eliminated everywhere except in a house of worship or in the privacy of one's home.

Bob

 

And here is where it all comes back together:

The media has been softening "US" up to the idea of a black or female President. for quite a while. I think the first reference was the movie "Deep Impact" with Morgan Freeman as the President, "Air Force One" with Glenn Close as the female Vice President, "Battlestar Gallactica" with Mary MacDonnel as the President of the new colonies and I am sure there are more.

Without a doubt. We also "observe" Presidential birthdays : Washington and Lincoln and another important person; Martin Luther King. So does that mean we will see increased Marketing to these birthdays over the next couple of thousand years? I am sure that the celebration of Christ's birth didn't start out as the extravaganza it has become.

If more people looked at it that way there would be peace throughout the world

My point:

Religion and Political leadership both espouse that: ultimate power, guidence, justice and righteousness rests in one "devine" person with stewardship over the masses.

A President's cabinet is no different than Christ and his apostles or God and his quorum of angels.

IS there really any modern difference to making a threat against the President and "Shaking your fist at God"

Brad

 

I couldn't agree more with this comment.

We are not allowed to "shake our fist at God".

I deeply resent that most of the time I am forced to remain in the closet regarding my atheism. You cannot claim to be an atheist without people looking at you as if you have horns and a tail. You are deemed to be a bad and immoral person.

The word "atheist" even conjures up that sentiment. If you look in an unabridged dictionary, you will find the word "atheism" defined secondarily as "evil and wicked".

Bob

 

The whole In God We Trust motto is a can of worms, and since even today about 85% of the American populace claim Christianity as their religion of choice (regardless of denomination), the motto only has the possibility of offending a small minority, and most don't give it a thought unless they are rabid atheists who despise the very concept of a God or divine being of any sort. Anyhooo, the motto showing up on our folding money was later than I thought!

Below is a listing by denomination of the first production and delivery dates for currency bearing IN GOD WE TRUST:

DENOMINATION
PRODUCTION
DELIVERY​

$1 Federal Reserve Note
February 12, 1964 (production)
March 11, 1964 (delivery)
$5 United States Note
January 23, 1964 (production)
March 2, 1964 (delivery)
$5 Federal Reserve Note
July 31, 1964 (production)
September 16, 1964 (delivery)
$10 Federal Reserve Note
February 24, 1964 (production)
April 24, 1964 (delivery)
$20 Federal Reserve Note
October 7, 1964 (production)
October 7, 1964 (delivery)
$50 Federal Reserve Note
August 24, 1966 (production)
September 28, 1966 (delivery)
$100 Federal Reserve Note
August 18, 1966 (production)
September 27, 1966 (delivery)

From:

U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of"In God We Trust"

That is a great site for figuring out when the motto was placed on American coinage, and later on the paper currency.

 

How can anyone be a true Atheist? It is my understanding that Aheists do not believe in God in any form so how can you be opposed to soemthing that you, yourself do not recognize as existing? By it's very nature something has to exist for it to be opposed and through your opposition you are confirming the presence of a God.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.