One of the greatest heists of all time: The theft of German patents after World War II

Here is a good summary of Goddard's patents and the licensing:
Listing of Goddard Patents

As far as I know, patents are public. So one doesn't steal a patent, anyone can read the patent at the government office. One could infringe a patent. Or one could force the patent owner to sell the patent or sign the patent over.

 

I believe that is correct, to produce the patented object without paying for a license to do so is the problem. Much as the Soviets produced the British R/R "Nene" (I think that is the model) centrifugal turbojet for use in their post-war MiG-15. I also wouldn't doubt that the Soviets used the German axial flow Wagner engine designs they captured as engines for their earliest jet plane attempts without honoring the patents.

Much as the NACA/NASA was doing with the Goddard patents until von Braun and Goddard's widow (financed by Gugenheim and Lindbergh I think) sued them and won in 1960.

 

To be fair, Germany did get billions of dollars under the Marshall Plan.

Fair swap?

 

To be really fair, it should be remembered that only a small percentage of the Euopean Economic Recovery Act (Marshall Plan) were outright grants. Most was in the form low percentage rate loans, stretched over long re-pay time periods, with which to purchase American goods.


(That may be the wrong official name for the act, I am doing this without looking it up again.)

Found the article I had saved, so am adding it here (it has the right name):

"(the) Marshall Plan was a rational effort by the United States aimed at reducing the hunger, homelessness, sickness, unemployment, and political restlessness of the 270 million people in sixteen nations in West Europe. Marshall Plan funds were not mainly directed toward feeding individuals or building individual houses, schools, or factories, but at strengthening the economic superstructure (particularly the iron-steel and power industries). The program cost the American taxpayers $11,820,700,000 in low interest loans (plus $1,505,100,000 in grants that didn’t need to be repaid) over four years and worked because it was aimed at aiding a well-educated, industrialized people temporarily down but not out.

The Marshall Plan significantly magnified their own efforts and reduced the suffering and time West Europe took to recover from the war. The program--whose official title was "European Recovery Program"--aimed at: (1) increasing production; (2) expanding European foreign trade; (3) facilitating European economic cooperation and integration; and (4) controlling inflation, which was the program's chief failure.

The idea of massive U.S. loans to individual countries had already been tried (nearly $20 billion--mainly long-term, low interest loans--since the war’s end) and had failed to make significant headway against Europe's social and economic problems. The plan that Marshall enunciated at Harvard University on June 5, 1947, was revolutionary in that it required the recipients to organize to produce a rational, multilateral approach to their common economic problems. Another innovative feature was its limited duration: four years maximum, thereby assuring American taxpayers and their representatives that the program would not be an indefinite commitment.

The economic problems in 1947-48 included not only the lack of capital to invest, but also the need for Europeans to overcome a U.S. trade surplus with them so massive as to imperil further trade and to encourage unmanageable inflation. Marshall Plan money helped stimulate the revival of European trade with the world and increased trade among European countries.


Americans were reluctant to invest in Europe because their profits were available only in local currencies that were little desired by U.S. businesses and investors. The Marshall Plan guaranteed that these investors would be able to convert their profits earned in European currencies into U.S. dollars. Grants and loans in U.S. dollars enabled managers in Europe to purchase in America specialty tools for their new industries. Marshall Plan money also paid for industrial technicians and farmers to visit U.S. industries and farms to study American techniques. Plan funds even paid the postage on privately contributed relief packages.

Many people in Washington helped to implement and manage the European Recovery Program that Marshall first outlined at Harvard; this is why, in addition to his normal modesty, Marshall refused to call the idea the "Marshall Plan." He always believed that his greatest contribution to the program was his 1947-48 nationwide campaign to convince the American people--and through them the Congress--of the its necessity; he likened his efforts in scope and intensity to a campaign for the presidency.


Over its four-year life, the Marshall Plan cost the U.S. 2.5 to 5 times the percent of national income as current foreign aid programs of today. One would need to multiply the program's $13.3 billion cost by 10 or perhaps even 20 times to have the same impact on the U.S. economy now as the Marshall Plan had between 1948 and 1952. (Most of the money was spend between 1948 and the beginning of the Korean War (June 25, 1950); after June 30, 1951, the remaining aid was folded into the Mutual Defense Assistance Program.)
　
From:

http://www.marshallfoundation.org/about_gcm/marshall_plan.htm

It was mostly "loans", and were repaid. Only the outright grants were "gifts".

 

When it comes to your stated opinions in regards to Germany it just shows who you are.

1.4 billion is not billions.
How many billions did Britain or France get? - no idea right? - judging upon your post
What was the reason for the Marshall Plan? - no idea right? - judging upon your post.
Why was Germany given money? - no idea right? - judging upon your post.

Go and read up or keep your imature nonsense to yourself

Kruska

 

I know that "imature nonsense" wasn't directed at myself "Kruska", but let's play nice. Great Britain received more ERP (Marshall Plan) aid than any other western European nation, followed by France, and then West Germany. But let's see here, two were our allies, one was our former enemy? Hmmmm. Did you know that Japan received absolutely NO aid from the US post-war in any plan like that for Europe? Well, inadvertantly they did when the Korean "Police Action" commenced, since producing vehicles for the US boosted their economy and halted their unemployment slide.

The Marshall Plan formed the greatest voluntary transfer of resources from one country to another known to history. Technically known as the European Recovery Program, the plan was passed by the U.S. Congress with a decisive majority and was signed by President Truman on April 3, 1948--just in time to influence the Italian election in that year.

The Marshall Plan did not, in and of itself, cause Western European economic recovery. Indeed, there was little direct correlation between the amount of U.S. aid received and the speed of economic recovery in the various recipient countries. France and Britain obtained much more aid per capita than West Germany, which nevertheless progressed more quickly than either. But the Marshall Plan (guided by the European Cooperation Administration, ECA) helped to tide Western Europe over a dangerous period. The plan provided new confidence to Western Europe; the plan furnished money, food, fuel, and machinery at a time when the Western European economies were all in disarray. Marshall Plan experts argued in favor of free trade, decentralized management, breaking up of cartels, the elimination of quotas and customs, and labor-saving technologies.

See:

Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - The Marshall Plan

 

Kruska, the US helped rebuild Germany's economy. I think that more than pays for the "stealing" of patents.

Besides, Germany showed no mercy to their victims.One has to consider the appropriation of their patents tiny payment for the misery and pain they caused Europe and the US.

 

Was Lindbergh involved? First I had heard of that?

 

Yeah, Lindbergh was a long-time family friend of the Goddards, he spend many weeks and even months at their "test range" in the southwest. He was quite an engineer in his own right remember. I believe he used his influence with the Guggenheim family to get them interested in helping finance the legal fees that Goddard's widow incurred during the lengthy suit.

 

Hello GoAM,

IMO this is absolutly not about compensating patents - the Marshall plan had absolutly nothing to do with this, and furthermore insinuating that Germany received billions is snide tactics and trying to make it look like a compensation for something else is simply wrong. That Germany paid back these 1.4 billion is not mentioned but it is deliberatly presented as having given Germany something for free and that is imature (whereby I would know a far better word for that).

The Marshal Plan was developed due to three reasons.

1. to stop hunger and starvation
2. to prevent hungry and starving people to eye towards communism/Russia
3. to set the basis for Europe to recover its economy so as to buy American products

In regards to Germany it proved to be that a weak Germany hindered the economic growth of Europe.

As for stealing German patents -I couldn't be bothered about this since it is obvious that the Nazis comitted far more worse crimes and up to 1945 the mentality towards "the victor takes it all" was standard practise for all sides.
If you wan't to find ancient chinese treasures, you will not find them in China, but in Berlin, London and Paris.

Regards
Kruska

 

Well that all seems quite irrelevant to me, and not for the first time. The fact is that the Allies had taken a lesson from the Great War and treated Germany far better than Germany treated the nations she defeated. For instance the British are almost entirely responsible for the success of Volkswagen after the war. A few patents here and there is neither here nor there compared to the usual reparations a defeated country would be expected to pay.

 

Hello lrusso216,

I think we just passed by each other.

There was nothing wrong with the Marshall Plan IMO.

Germany was not included into the initial Marshall Plan - due to obvious reasons

However the Americans did realize that a stronger Germany was needed in order to prevent communism from getting further into Europe, especially into France and Italy.
The US also realized that they needed a stronger European economy in their own economic interest - and that Germany was the driving engine needed to ensure a rising European economy.

Due to these considerations Germany was included into the receipients list of the Marshall Plan.

That so many Germans were saved from hunger and starvation in 1945/46 was due to the help provided by the British, Canadian and foremost US GI's and not the Marshall Plan.

Regards
Kruska

 

Great, so could you stop posting then?

Besides Poland, in what way were defeated countrys treated differently in the 4-5 years of Nazi occupation? then from how the Allies were treating Germany from 1945-49?

I see, how many Volkwagen did the British buy?

It wasn't a "few patents" but ?
And how much were they worth?

As I already stated; I couldn't be bothered about those patents being stolen or regarded as compensation or borrowed or whatever.

Five questions that need to be answered Mr. Drucius and not my means of meere opinions.

Kruska

 

kruska i think most of us are speaking from the same hymn sheet here.. Including yourself..i have no problems with what your saying... I admit it doesnt seem right of the allies to have done so... But at the time it can be seen as small potatoes after the previous few years wether we 60 odd years later-like it or not.. Also and you wont like this... But the allies didnt gas defeated germans..theres one difference.

 

You mean apart from the 'Jewish Question', the killing of hostages in retaliation for any occupying troops deaths, and forced requisition of foodstuffs in conquered areas of the Soviet Union which led to hundreds of thousands of deaths in these areas through starvation.

 

Hello urqh and redcoat,

I do not have a problem with agreeing on your statements as such.

The discussion however was ..........and treated Germany far better than Germany treated the nations she defeated.

It, or my post was not in regards to treatment of POW's in Germany. That Nazi-Germany commited countless atrocities is known to you and me.

That the allies (foremost the Russians) commited atrocities is also known and there is no need to go into numbers since we all know that Nazi Germany was the worst.

As for the hostage shootings as reprisals by the Wehrmacht or SS - I know you won't like it - but from Nazi-German viewpoint the Partisans were terrorists, and the civilians around them or supporting them suffered as a consequenze. Nowaday's we term them collateral damage - even though they had not been rounded up before.

And the Spanish foremost and all other European countries murdered millions and millions of people in our last 1000 years due to religious and political driven motivation, until today as in former Yugo.

There is absolutly nothing that can or could excuse Nazi-Germany from its sins, we have been paying and appologizing for it until today since 1945 - and I am at times really getting fed up of a generation or others after 1945 to constantly hack into this topic when ever it seems suitable to support someones case in regards to support his opinions.

What has the US done so far in this matter in regards to Vietnam? What has Britain done in regards to this matter regarding her colonial history?
What have the French done, etc. etc.

I will not get myself into anymore postings or threads were these Nazi topics are being brought up so as to justify anti -German actions and opinions.

Regards
Kruska

 

I see, how many Volkwagen did the British buy?

Kruska ,without the determination of an obscure British Major in the Post War Military Government Volkeswagen would not exist. No Motor company wanted to buy, or invest in, the war damaged plant with plans to produce a car personaly endorsed by Hitler. I cannot remember the Major's name, but no doubt a VW fan will provide it, who hunted down materials and found orders for the strange little car that even a mother would find difficult to love.( VW s advertising words not mine)

Germany s post war miracle started with that little car. I did buy a beetle and thought it bloody lethal.

Britain did not import foreign cars for a long time after WW2.In fact most of GB own car production was sold abroad .This was to help pay off war debts owed to the USA. There were probably more new cars on German roads than GB roads in the 1950. Did Germany have any War Debts to repay.

 

Now you are really joking right?
= without the Beetle no Wiirtschaftswunder? come on

As for the Beetle:

I am not aware about what some british Major has to do with the Volkswagen setup - I wouldn't mind to receive some info though!

What I know is that 330,000 orders of the VW had been placed by the Germans before the end of 1945. (So much for nobody wanting to have one) The price was 990 RM and in 1960 VW settled the dispute with those orderers who had placed a deposit amounting to 278 Millionen RM. Eventually everyone received a rebate of 600 DM.

Another joke right?

They had to rebuild the entire country from scrap and paid back the Marshall loan. WE have paid so far until this day approx. 67 Billion DM = 33 Billion Euro to who ever and WE are still paying everytime some outside Jerk brings up Germany"s history.

Regards
Kruska