Black Hawk Down. Anyone seen it yet?

Shoot the kid. See now thats a joke... As for your homework only answer that matters is liverpool... Language problems can sometimes lead to missunderstandings on here., but dont worry jugs a58 and wtid are getting the hang of the inglesi now., k28 and me speak proper ameringlish

 

LOL, moutan1, the only problem I have with you, is that you think the Rangers are part of the United States Marine Corps (USMC)! The Rangers belong to the Army,not the Marines! I'm sure this is a sore spot with both noble and honorable groups.

No, we've got no problems, so long as you dont try to convince me that the Rangers got whupped by the Somali rebels.......Because they didnt.

 

Well you need to keep on apologizing then because the Rangers have never been part of the Marine Corps.

 

Hi Keystone, thanks and AMEN to that. That incident also reminded me of that failed attempt in Iran to get our people out of the clutches of those Iranians who held our people hostage for 444 days. I remember how their media exploited our dead military personnel. Im still pretty angry about that incident as well.

 

The one that gets me is the Marine Barracks in Beirut.

As far as Somalia is concerned:

I had a lot of friends that went there and I was in touch with them while they were there. "D" Co 1st Bn 1st Marines. I had gotten out prior to the deployment so I was glued to the TV. I don't think I slept for 3 months.

I was amazed at how quickly the situation deteriorated after the Marines left.

I was mortified seeing the body of CWO Wolcott dragged through thte streets and CWO Durant being held captive.

I read the book in 1999 and couldn't put it down. I was appalled at the apparent lack of planning and support due to "political restrictions".

In 2001 I saw the movie in the theatre. I twitched for 3 days afterward. I haven't watched the movie or read the book since.

It was a situation the people involved were not prepared for, nor did they expect, it to turn south so quickly. I am furious at the leadership for not preparing for the worst. The complacency and over confidence of the leadership is reprehensible.

There was no back up plan, no preparation for worst case scenario. The Command knew that violence was escalating and they continued to send men out with less and less means with which to protect themselves.

Politicians should not be allowed to make combat decisions and military leders with political asperations should not be allowed to command, or influence, troops in a combat zone.

That's my take on it and that's why it pisses me off.

 

For a foreign gentleman that jugs chap talks a lot of sense... Moutan1, as much as it pains me... America does indeed have an elite... Its beem your missfortune to have blundered into 3 of em in one go.. Para marine and ranger. I dont know if you are a video game player., the characters in em are modelled on these sort of guys. And their former comrades.. Except these 3 are for real.. Youll live ... Just accept youve been banjoed. They are entitled.. Under mods rules of course., on no account call jaeger a snowman.. Or your on your own.

 

UK TV is much Trustable Than US one!! "Neutral" Ok I didn't said that the Somalis R Better than US Rangers ,but in that Time as I said before US Rangers & other Elite Units around The World were not trained 4 such a Street Clash (about The 1.000 Casualities inflicted in The Somalis ,a lot of them were Civilians!! .In one day AH-1 Cobra Attacked Wrongfully Some Location ,where 200 Somali Civilians were killed Truely!! Yes I know That Aideed's Group is Terrorsit ,They Stole UN Food Shipment ,Killed Several Of UN Pakistani Forces "Slaughtered" & Killed Several Civilians!! .I'm not Defending Them or being With Em But I'm Against Killing Civilians in any Conflict ,Eventhough by Mistake!!) US Rangers had never Meant 2 Kill Civilians ,but They Could be More Careful!!

 

What you fail to grasp is that these guerillas bring it on themselves. They are the ones that endanger non hostiles. The non hostiles are the ones that need to stand up to these knuckleheads and tell them that it is not OK to shoot an RPG at an American Attack Helicopter from a class room full of kids. Don't hide inside houses that have people in them. IF these non hostiles are giving them support and shelter then they are no longer non hostiles.

 

Eh? Never mind the elite units the british army had "built up" training sites in uk and baor for years before this american missgon, and id be surprised if yanks didnt too.. They already had the experience of numerous vietnamese cities.. This would have been added and expanded into a docterine.. Shoot him jugs..

 

This is what I was getting at in my last post.
Lebanon, Balkans, Iraq, Afganistan and now in Africa.

We (norwegians) have operated with ROE's that doesn't match the reality of the theatres we have operated in. The army has to explain to the politicians that we cannot carry out such and such a mission since it would be a suicide, or b impossible because the theatre is currently a war zone and some sort of stability has to be reached before flooding it with civvies. We have a saying "God is Norse" since we loose an incredible small number of men.

 

Wheras my lot just say rightio.. Pack the golf clubs benson., and see where that gets us... In a mess that one excellent danant has to take the can for one mediocre jackson.. I like the norwegian way.. Back to blackhawk... I felt angry reading that excellent book .. Read it in one go and was fuming at the planners but amazed at rangers resilliance and pure old fashioned guts.

 

The Rangers conducted themselves valliantly in a horrific situation. They upheld the strong traditions of the Rangers in the face of indeterminable odds despite lack of support. With no hope of relief or resupply the men of Task Force Ranger undauntingly held their positions against a superior enemy force. This is no doubt a reflection on the NCOs, Junior NCOs and the men they lead who exhibited an esprit de corps and a can do attitude. This is a excellent example of Rangers leading the way.

 

But they know that already Jugs! I believe the scientific term for this condition is called chickensh*t!! You know, say what you will about the Nazis, but at least the SS weren't pussies. At least they had the stones to stand up and fight without hiding in mosques, or behind women and children.

 

True that

 

Bullshit gentlemen.
Germans used human shields as early as Lapphaugen (outside Narvik) in 1940. The Trønderbattalion faced the prospect of shooting through their own countrymen or beeing slaughtered themselves. This is no lie, my grandfather was there.

Having guts is one thing.

Fanatics usually doesn't have any qualms about taking extreme measures.

 

That is my fault maybe because my information about US ARMY branchs are not good (I always need to read more ) even I always wonder what is difference between the Commandos , Special task force and Rangers and also between USMC and US ARMY in the role and purpose?
anyway I correct it

 

A good rule of thumb is, the Marines are related -though theyre not crazy about it- to the United States Navy,as are the SEALS, and the Rangers,Delta Force and other Special Forces groups are part of the United States Army.

 

Great example to mention--I feel the same way on that one too. I remember watching all the news about the Beirut tragedy. Untill then, I never hated anyone in my life more than the cowardly freak(s) responsible for that incident-that is, untill 9/11 happened.

 

If you Gents will notice something that I did (about the men who were killed in Somalia) that when I saw that list of names of our dead guys, I noticed that most of them were NCOs-which I think says it all. At any rate, I think that Schughart and Gordon, well deserved their MoHs-I just wish that they were able to be around to recieve them. Im sure some of the others that were killed also probably more than deserved that Medal as well. I wonder if those men at least got a Bronz Star? I also wonder if there is a place to go to to see what these men were posthumously awarded?

 

About two thirds of the way down this page:

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993) )