Less interest in the Pacific?

These questions should be in the what if thread. Hopefully the moderator will open one up and we can discuss this there.

It doesn't matter how many Japanese forces are fighting in the CBI, because the main fight in the Pacific was in the center.

Take the Mariana's and the war is lost.

After July 1944, everything south of those islands was irrelevant and inconsequential. And that includes the remaining Japanese forces in the NEI and the Philippines. Note - Remaining Japanese forces in the Solomons/Marshalls/Carolines were already irrelevant by Feb 1944. The Aleutions were already irrelevent by Sept 1943.

Now for your CBI theater, explain to me how many of those forces would be needed for occupation duty. Explain to how the remaining forces are going to be shipped to the SW and Central Pacific and then resupplied on a regular basis. And then finally, explain to me that when Japan loses complete air and sea control of those area's, how they will be able to stop the numerically and qualitatively superior US forces that can pick and choose what point they are going to attack without fear of the Japanese being able to move forces around.

The end result is always the same. No matter what happens in the CBI theater, Japan loses in the same way.

 

Firstly this thread seems to have lost its way from the title LESS INTREST IN THE PACIFIC? war etc, as for the CBI being a sideshow to some of you yanks maybe to me a son of a 14th army vet NO it for me sullies thier memory as well AS THAT OF THOSE THAT DIED FOR NOTHING and all you naysayers read some books and you will find that Burma saw the most complete defeat of the Japanese ANYWHERE! ANYTIME! EVER! sideshow I think not.

 

I agree that the thread has lost its way. Also, I believe that some of our fellow Rogues seem to believe that just because it was inevitable that Japan would lose, the PTO was a side show. Two points to that . . . .

1) The conflict is now referred to as World War II. It was not two localized conflicts with one taking place in Europe and one taking place in the Pacific. It was a global conflict and every battle, every decision by the multitude of nations involved, had a ripple effect on both theaters. I won't further turn this into a what-if, but I suspect that most of us can come up with scenarios based on hindsight that could have changed the relevance of one event or another. The bottom line is that there was no side show because it was all connected as part of one Big Show.

2) I believe this thread was derailed by the initial use of the term "side show" to describe the PTO. Emotionally, there are clearly several of us who take issue with the term. That is the power of words to obfuscate an issue that is otherwise clear. Ultimately, I would not characterize any event in which human blood is spilled as a side show, and given the volume of blood spilled in the PTO, I understand the emotion. Indeed, I certainly shared it.

All that said, let's move away from the discussion of Japan's inevitable downfall and back to the original query of why the PTO has captured popular interest less than the ETO, if that is even true. To that end, I suggest Stephen Ambrose and HBO as one reason (or is that two. . . .). If Band of Brothers had not been such a best-seller and if HBO had not turned it into such a successful mini-series, the past decade to 15 years would not have been nearly as Europ-centric. Let's see if that interest shifts after HBO releases its Pacific counter-part to Band of Brothers.

 

Before Band of Brothers, you had Saving Pvt. Ryan which really focused attention on the ETO. Prior to SPR, I would say attention was pretty evenly divided between the ETO and the Pacific, unless you were a tread-head.

 

The PTO could be considered to have had secondary importance in the global fight against the axis. Secondary does not mean "side show".

No one cannot justify having Japan as the more dangerous of the three axis powers.

But within each theater, there were areas that declined in strategic significance as the war progressed. That doesnt mean the participants didnt fight with courage and dedication, but it is also a fact that as areas were bypassed, whatever allied forces were still in the area, were wasted assetts.

As for the CBI, it was solely fought for political issues. Thats the bottom line. Even if China and India were abandoned to the Japanese, the war will still have ended as it did, on the same timeframe.

 

'Bit insulting that one ' Why ? Maybe 10 % of Europeans know that Saipan,.... are located in the Pacific and how much know that Vermont is one of the 50 states ? And will we talk about the geograficknowledge of the average American ? Ask an American to mark Austria on a map of Europe ?Ask an American or an European what's the capital of ...Denmark .

 

I' sorry, I know this is off topic but I did start this thread and this vid is wiked funny....

YouTube - Re: Miss Teen USA 2007 - South Carolina answers a question

 

Capital of Denmark - Coppenhagen (like the chewing tobacoo)
Austria - south of Germany and North of Italy and west of Hungry (by WW2 boarders)
The captital of Vermont is Montpilier as well, just to go a step further.

As for the pacific I can point out any one of the islands you can mention without difficulty. Don't believe steriotypes. Not all Americans are uneducated, and stupid. I would hope the same applies in regards to our European friends.

Note: in an attempt to validate that I didn't look any of these up I didn't use the spell check, so sorry for any mis-spelled cities.

 

...

 

If we took 100 geographically literate Americans and 100 geographically literate Europeans, I can say that a majority of both groups would know more places in Europe than of the Pacific.

But that is what adds to my interest in the Pacific war. Theres just something appealing about reading about a short intense battle in a remote part of the world, that was quickly forgotten by almost everyone, and soon returned back to nature.

For you Europeans that dont follow the war in the Pacific like some of us do .... just how many know offhand, where Aitapi is?

 

I believe it is less popular because the European theater included so many different countries. The war in the pacific was mainly the US and Japan. War in europe took place on lands that had been densly populated for centuries. Most of the pacific battles took place on nameless islands, whose names fade away except to those who served there.

I find the pacific theater much more interesting due to the fact that naval strategy was such a huge part of the proceedings. And besides, the Marines were so bad ass.

 

Japan had the momentum and could have easily taken the Hawaiian islands. They would have been foolish to attempt to invade the mainland. They would have been repulsed rather easily. However, if they would have defeated us at midway, they would have extended the war by at least two years. as a result they probably would have had quite a stranglehold on the Phillipines and the Solomons.

 

Well said.

 

How does Japan lacking oil and proper navel vessels successfully invade and hold one of the most heavily defended islands in the Pacific over 3,800 miles away?

 

I would say that one of the main reasons the fighting in Europe is a more popular topic is because of the cruelty of the Germans, what with Hitler's crazy talk about making a superior race. Saying this, I believe the cruelty of the Japanese is downplayed. I am not entirely well versed in either, as I am quite young and have not studied this as much as some people, but I must admit, the war with Germany has always had my interest. The German Tanks are well... great =D And fightng across an entire continent seems more interesting than hearing about fighting on dozens of small islands, trying to root out entrenched Japanese soldiers. No disrespect to either theaters though, both were a neccessary evil. But personally, I do enjoy learning about fighting the Germans more than the Japanese.

 

If you think the atrocities of the Japanese are downplayed I encourage you to look into the folowing:

Ambon Island (Feb 1943)- The Japanese beheaded more than 200 Australian and Dutch prisoners after taking control of this small island in the Dutch East Indies.

Ballalae Island, Solomons (1942-1945)- Of 516 POWs shipped from Singapore to New Britain Island to build an airstrip for the Japanese, not one survived the war.

Bataan (April 1942- After the fall of the Philippines, U.S. and Filipino military prisoners were marched 65 miles over land to prison camps. Exhausted and undernourished, about 600 Americans and perhaps as many as 5,00 Filipinos died on the way, many bayoneted, shot, or beheaded when they could not continue. Others died after the last stage of their trip, baking in the tropical sun. Thousands more POWs of both nations died after arriving at Camp O'Donnell.

Cheribon, Java (July 1945)- The Japanese loaded 90 civilian prisoners onto the outside of a Japanese submarine, which took them to sea. The submarine then submerged, leaving the civilians- men, women, and children, foundering in shark-filled waters. One mutilated survivor lived long enough to tell the story.

Kalagon, Burma (June 1945- Japanese troops hunting for British-led Burmese guerrillas surrounded this village, then bayoneted or shot more than 600 villagers.

Kinsu and Chekiang Provinces, China (April-May 1942)- After the Doolittle raid on Tokyo shocked Japan in April 1942, Japanese troops launched a massive search for the raiders, most of whom had had to crash-land in China. Three captured raiders were executed; during their hunt for the Americans the Japanese killed thousands of Chinese civilians and destroyed entire villages.

Loa Kula, Borneo (July 1945)- Japanese troops murdered more than 140 native men and many of their wives and hurled the children down a mine shaft.

Nanking, China (Dec 1937)- In the worst single massacre of the war, Japanese troops murdered as many as 250,000 Chinese in and around the city.

Prison Ships- The Japanese shipped thousands of Allied POWs to Japan from the occupied territory during the war by cramming them into the holds of dilapidated, overcrowded freighters with insufficient water and food. Many died and some were murdered by sadistic crew or guards. Thousands more perished when Allied forces sank some of the unmarked ships.

Sandakan, North Borneo (June 1945)- Of approximately 2,400 British and Australian POWs taken here for labor, more than 2,000 died: murdered, marched to death, starved, dead of untreated disease. Of about 4,000 Japanese civilian slave laborers, almost none survived. The Japanese camp commandant at Sandakan was tried and hanged after the war.

Tol Plantation, Rabaul (Feb 1942)- Japanese troops shot or bayoneted more than 100 Australian soldiers who had surrendered when their defense of the island of New Britain in the Solomons collapsed.

Wake Island (Jan 1943- The Japanese machine-gunned 98 American civilians after capturing them on the island. A small detachment of U.S. Marines and civilian construction workers had put a spirited defense of Wake Island in December 1941.

Because surrender was so shameful to the Japanese, they had no sympathy for civilians or soldiers who surrendered. Murder, rape, torture, neglect, starvation, and bizarre medical experiments were endemic in areas controlled by the Japanese.

 

At that point in the war Japan had control of the dutch east indies, burma and indochina. IMO, they could have taken the hawaiian islands immedietly following pearl harbor had they of the troop transports with them, and then had reinforcements on the way within a couple days after the main force departed from Japan. How could we have stopped them at that point?
One of the targets that were completely missed in the attack on Pearl Harbor were the millions of gallons of oil in the storage facility just west of Ford island.

 

Japan was much more brutal than the Germans. The Germans adhered to the geneva convention for the most part. Japan did not. They were fanatical in their "fight to the death" mentality. They murdered, raped and pillaged where ever they conquered.