Most over rated general of the war?

I agree 100% on that. I think it is impossible to call Zhukov overrated. He is essentially responsible for the victories at Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk, and helped defend Leningrad. To me it doesn't matter what method of fighting he took to achieve this, I think the end justifies the means on this one.

 

Its also saying something when you look at how he was one of the few that survived the purges.

 

That's true, and he constantly confronted Stalin. At Kiev he strongly suggested a withdrawal to Stalin who wouldn't hear of it. Stalin didn't like him, but he respected his military prowess.

 

Germans were in no shape to take Moscow. They were exhausted and forgot their winter coats. Japan was busy in the Pacific with USA and Russians were able to bring the Siberian Divisions with their winter coats and tanks that ran at -38c.

Germans never wanted to take Leningrad; they were going to starve the city.

He was a part time commander at Stalingrad.

Kursk counteroffensive was done by Rokossovsky and Vatutin, Zhukov just wrote in his book that he was responsible.

Rokossovski being a Pole never got the permission for attack on Berlin.
Russians outnumbered Berlin defenders almost 10:1. Zhukov still lost 2 Tank Armies and more than ½ million men.

 

That winter was so cold that even though the Soviets had developed special lubricants to prevent freezing, their equipment froze anyway. Citing the Russian winter as the major reason for he German defeat on the Eastern Front is not correct. The Russian's blood was not made of anti-freeze.

...and once the city was successfully starved what do you think they planned on doing?

He in coordination with Vasilevsky had the overall responsibility of Operation Uranus. This was without a doubt the most important event in the Battle of Stalingrad and led to the Soviet victory.

This is somewhat true, Vatutin was in command of Operation Rumyantsev which was a counteroffensive in the southern sector of the region, there was also Operation Kutuzov. Zhukov was responsible for the defense of the salient. If the attack wasn't stopped their could be no counteroffensive.

 

To add my thoughts to part of the discussion (the first two parts), I've read in the past that the Germans were spent in every sense of the word at the time of the Soviet offensive outside Moscow. The Russian push was at the right place and the right time imho. And also what I have read is that after the Germans starved Lenningrad out, they planned on turning that area, along with other areas that bordered Finland over to the Finns, upon successful completion of the war, upon favorable terms and conditions that is....

Now for the other parts, I will turn it over to others more versed in those areas of expertise. Gentlemen, start your engines>>>>

 

Zhukov’s career is based on brutality of the Soviet System. He always needed 5-10/1 advantage for his victories. I think he was one of Stalin’s political enforcers than a great commander.

More like a Mafia Boss than a professional soldier.

 

Could you give me some examples of when Zhukov was defeated while he had around a 1/1 ratio?

 

The Soviets outfit millions of men every few months. Do think they would waste that? Why attack with 100,000 men when you could attack with 2 million? This seemed to be a way of Soviet thinking.

They simply used what worked for them.

 

That's not true. Force ratio for neither the Battle of Moscow nor Stalingrad remotely approached 5:1.

 

Zukhorov seems to be like Stalin in Pushing his Soldiers in Human Waves to their Death by German MGs ,20mms & Artillery!!
Nevertheless he could Defeat a Superior (Technologically) Forces!!
We cann't Forget his Victory in Kursk (also Huge Losses!!)

 

What you describe seems to be what the pre 43' red army was. While casualities were still large, it must be noted that they used a massive assualt style of war to overrun their enemy. The Germans lost bigtime from this as well.

 

Tot;
In mid 43 Glantz puts Soviet artillery as with a 3:1 advantage against the German-Baltic to Black seas; and growing by the day as Sov industry really kicked into high gear. It was to go as high as 16:1 in some sectors by 1945. Here was their strong suit. In the arty dept the Sovs needed no help whatsoever from Allied lend lease as they had been quite good at this historically.
JeffinMNUSA
PS. Chuikov credited the Soviet Arty on the East Bank as all that kept the 62nd Army alive during Stalingrad (from the Jones account).

 

I always thought Zhukov was "Underrated". I think he never got the respect afforded to him If he were an Allied General. We hear and read all about Patton, Rommel, Halsey, Montgomery, McArthur etc,etc.. and not enough about Zhukov. If he did what he did as an allied General he would have bases named after him.

 

Of course people should ask how would zhukov have performed had he been a general in a different army.
Had montgomery been a russian general theres a chance he would never have lost a battle either.

 

I do not think Zhukov would have been as a successful commander in Western Allied Army. Allies generally cared about the casualty rate and ill treatment of soldiers was not looked upon favorably. An incident with General Patton comes to mind. After striking a shell shock private in the hospital there was a backlash against him.

Zhukov was a brute of as man. Under his orders millions of Russian lives were lost. There were many instances when he punched, kicked and assaulted his subordinates, including Generals and Colonels.

I think Montgomery was a cautious man because British avoided taking high loses after WW1. British public opinion could not have dealt with another Somme and 57,000 casualties in one day. Western governments were elected by their people, thus they had to take better care of the citizen soldier.

 

Montgomery was way overrated. So was MacArthur to a lesser extent. Mac actually hindered efforts in the Pacific. The Phillipines should have been by passed in favor of Nimitz's plan of invading Formosa. Douglass was a primadonna. FDR gave him his way because he did not want him as a political rival in the upcoming elections.

I think the best Generals in the war were;

Admiral Nimitz - COMSOPAC A great job of directing the effort against the Japanese by utilizing his excellent subordinate commanders Halsey, Spruance, Mitscher.

Vandegrift - Marine 1st Division
Patton - 3rd Army
Zukov - Russian Army
Rommel - German Panzerkorps
Guderian - German army

Bradley was timid and a kiss up to Ike. He was actually subordinate to Patton and then was passed over Patton after the slapping incident.
Ike was more of a diplomat than a combat general. Perhaps that's what made him the best choice for Supreme Allied commader in Europe, of which he did a very good job.

 

MacArthur went up New guinea to the Phillipines. Halsey moved up the Solomons. MacArthur had nothing to do with the Solomons campaign.

 

Good point, indeed.

 

MacArtur's finest hour was at Inchon. He was merely mediocre in WWII. The PI campaign was totally unnecessary.