villers bocage:michael wittmanns most famous feat of arms

personal attacks on others inputs just belittles the point in posting,if you have an opinion fine!if you have a dispute fine! but to sneer at something you totally poo poo,then say you have a problem? what is that supposed to mean?,that my input is lesser than yours? or your knowledge is greater than mine? either way! responses that are aimed at ones intelligence is pathetic and childish.a forum works if you have better input to a question that you can add to,and assist in understanding the subject matter,don't knock those that post responses to a question that doesn,t fit in with your ideals,after all! we all had to learn somehow,the knowledge we! most of us! comes from books/films/documentaries,we try! and that is why were here! and that is fact!!!!!! disappointed..absolutely...grow up...

 

Ray.

I'd take the aar from the British army on losses of vehicles over the claims that Wittmann and his men did.

As for the Villers Bocage itself, it has become the symbol of armoured warfare in 1944. That is not a good reflection of how armoured warfare in 1944 happened. The British commander did a massive mistake by sending a cloumn down the road without support or having done a proper reccie.

It doesn't portray allied views on fighting armour at all. Allied tanks were not supposed to fight german tanks. That was a job for AT guns and tank destroyers. The record of the 75th AT reg in the Black Bull 11th AD show a good stat for tank fighting in the Normandy campaign. But all we get in our faces when discussing armoured warfare is Villers Bocage and Sherman vs Tiger. The great swan after the massive victory after Falaise is the purest example of the British doctrine. Nobody discuss that though.

 

I understand that jaeger,and agree,good response too! common sense and quality replies make a difference,that I thank you for,regards,ray..

 

You called Wittman the best tanker ever lived. I found that a dubious judgement and I have given you why I think so. I have also told you exactly what I feel about the history channel as a source. If you find that personally insulting, that is too bad.

 

Gle mhaith!

 

Wittmann never said he knocked out 20+ tanks.
You can not make claims and then brush aside all challenges with the excuse that 'professors' agree with you. Some do and some don't. You make the claim so it is up to you to source it.

 

the source is this video,and that is what I used as wittmanns own words... YouTube - Wittmann in Villers Bocage

 

I actualy know what 'Wittmann's own words' were. Do you?

 

N!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!O

 

Poor quality, but worth the effort to anyone that knows Joe Ekins's name in relation to Wittmann.

"Wittmann was a Criminal" - Joe Ekins part 2


Brief reference to the controversial '5 to 1' business in the more clearly recorded first part of Mr Ekins' interview
Three Tigers In 12 Minutes – Joe Ekins part 1

~A

 

I've been following this post with great interest.

I think the apparent disagreements begin with Post 14 which appear to come from Ray but they do not. They are taken verbatim from the last two paragraphs of this website:

Badass of the Week: Michael Wittman

It is far too easy to copy and paste information from websites but in order to avoid accusations and counter-accusations of personal attacks (which I do not see here) it might be helpful to post the website that information, controversial or not, is taken from and let the others who see the thread make up their own mind.

I have found a lot of the posts offered by Ray and others very helpful and interesting but I do not accept anything at face value hence my use of google and many other research tools.

As many people use this forum for projects, terms papers and such I am of the opinion it is critical that readers know where we are drawing our information from.

Just my two cents worth.

 

agree! no intention to credit wittmann,but to add info,accepted! bad post,ray..

 

I see Wittmann as a very aggressive tank commander who largely ignored sound military doctrine and planning in favor of "leading with his face." To me he seems cut from the same cloth as George Custer.

At Villers Brocage he attacked into the town with just three Tigers and a Pz IV from Lehr. Initially, he was quite successful shooting up the British with near impunity. But, in the end, he lost all four tanks, including his own, and was unable to hold the town. This was due to lack of any infantry support, artillery support or, follow up plan as part of the attack.
So, while his tactical results may look impressive he lost the battle both tactically and operationally.
It was no different when he was killed. His command of a platoon of Tigers was essentially charging cavalry-style into an unknown enemy force across open ground. It was as if he believed the Tiger truly was invulnerable to enemy weapons. This time all the German tanks were again lost and it cost Wittmann his life. The situation was no different: No infantry support. No artillery support. No reconnissance.
This seems to have become the norm in Russia for German panzer units. It seems that there this sort of attack worked tactically more often than not. Against the Western Allies it was suicide.

 

Thanks for the great link

 

i read about wittmans tiger being destroyed but how far did he have to walk back to his own lines

 

I know Joe Ekins the Northamptonshire Yeomanry tank gunner who was there on the 8th August and who opened fire on Wittman' column. Joe is 86 or 87 now and still lives in Northamptonshire. He lost his wife last year has had a major operation recently but is still very lucid and remembers well that day in August 1944. I had lunch with him on the 65th anniversary of that engagement. He told us the story in his own words. He knows that he hit three Tigers at about 800 yards. After each shot was fired the commander gave the order to back up and re-emerge at another point of the orchard they were using for cover. On each appearance Joe was ordered to open fire on a particular tank. He knows his shells hit home as he saw each tank, in turn, either explode or burst into flames. Later on in that engagement Joe's tank was hit and they were all ordered to bale out. What he is most proud of that day is not that he hit three Tigers, but that he had the presence of mind, when the order was given "everyone out", to swing the turret of his Firefly around into the correct position so that the driver could get out also. Joe did not discover until years after the war that one of the tanks hit in that engagement was that commanded by Wittman. It should also be noted that Joe has never claimed the hit on Wittman's tank - that has been attributed to him by military researchers. After that day, Joe never fired another round from a tank gun. His officer, Captain Boardman, put Joe in another tank - as a radio operator.

As a footnote, a few years ago, Joe was invited to the Royal Armoured Corps firing range as a guest for the day. He was about 81 or 82 at the time I think. They put him in a Challenger II and let him fire a round at a distant target. He hit it.

 

welcome incredulous...great intro...thats superb to know he's doing well..

 

Thank you for that Sniper 1946. On the Easter weekend, Sunday 4th and Monday 5th April, there is a Game Fair and country show on in the grounds of Kelmarsh Hall, Northamptonshire - The Game and Country Sports Fair. We are hoping to be able to get Joe Ekins out there for the day if he is up to it. If he is able to make it on the day you could come out and meet him and hear the story in person. Cannot at the moment guarantee him being there as he is still a bit shaky on his feet - but we are keeping our fingers crossed. Watch this space.
In the meantime there is an artist by the name of Keith Hill who paints Second World War themes. He has painted two pictures of the engagment with Wittman's Tigers. Once picture is called "Holding the Line" and depicts Joe Ekins' Firefly tank. The other picture is "Two shots, Two hits" and depicts Wittman's tank being hit. Both pictures are available as limited edition prints with "Holding the Line" being signed by Joe Ekins. Keith Hill has a website: www.KeithHillStudios.co.uk

 

fascinating,thanks for that info,we'll see nearer the time,and how joe is,and if able to...

 

welcome aboard incred. thank you for posting about the chap and his piece against Wittmann's suicidal crossing of an open field.

having been thinking on and off for some many years after I received Meyers 2 volume set on the 12 th SS and the first person accts of watching the fateful Wittmann "charge". maybe somewhat of a whacked out thought process but do wonder if Wittmann became just that slightly melodic and sucidal and just went for it with his some zug, heaven only knows what the other Tiger I Kommandeurs and crews must have thought going across that open stretch without proper recon ahead of them; this had to be one of the stupidest renderings of any German tank commander in ww2 history to do what Wittmann proposed and paid for dearly.

In any negative regards to this man and his gunner later a Tiger Kommandeur himself whatever the score(s) were the men were excellent hunters and this cannot be denied.

E ~