Patton's Third Army

Hello, I am a new member. I have a query and I hope someone here can help me. I am a genealogist, and need to clarify something. I have a snapshot of a relative who was home on furlough during WWII. Problem: the hand-written date on the margin of the snapshot is "1944". His shoulder patch is clearly visible and after much searching I have identified the patch as that of the Third Army. My relative died on April 4, 1945, and is buried at Margraten, Holland, at The Netherlands American Cemetery and Memorial, and his record on Ancestry.com says he was a Technician Grade 5, 41st Infantry Battalion and Armored Division. His family said he died while serving in Patton's army. According to what I have found on line, Patton did not command the 41st after 1942 until elements of the 41st joined his Third Army in the latter part of 1944-1945. Since the 41st saw much action throughout 1944 and 1945, I have a question: How could my relative have been home from the very active theatre in late spring or summer of 1944 and why would he have been wearing a Third Army shoulder patch, if he was a member of the 41st at his death?

Hoping someone here has some information.

Claudia

 

Hi,

Many thanks for your reply.

The patch is an A inside of a circle, and was worn on his upper left shoulder (he is shown trimming hedges at his family's home). There is another insignia below this above his elbow that I cannot match to
anything I've found on line...it is shaped like a triangle above a darker crescent, and there is something inside of the triangluar shape, but it is impossible to see it clearly, as he is shown nearly front-view with the left arm extended as he is holding hedge clippers, so his arm is turned away. I do not see any stripes. As for Margraten, it is supposed to house the graves 0f 8,301 American dead, including unknowns, and they fell during the liberation of Europe, 1944 -1945, which could encompass many operations. I am 74, by the way, so I was just a kid when the war ended. My husband is the "techie", but he is ill and cannot help me to post the photo and won't be for a while.

My relative-by-marriage's name was Frederick E. Osier, and he died only a short time before the war ended. He was first cousin of my uncle-by-marriage who served with the Army Air Force in the Pacific, but survived and is still alive, and it is for him and for his wife, my paternal auntie, that I've tackled his family history.

Claudia

 

Claudia, you may have some luck going to this site, and scrolling through the many different patches from the different branches an see if something matches up;

Just click:

Shoulder Sleeve Insignia of the United States Army of World War Two

and when that start-up page loads, simply click on each section to see if something "rings the bell".

Good luck in you quest.

 

Claudia, The only insigna below the patch and above the elbow is the rank insigna. A Tech 5 would fit your description. The 2nd Armored was active in Holland and he could well be attached to the 41st Armored Infantry Regiment, but still wouldn't explain the 3rd Army patch and why he was home in 44. Thought they may have got the dates wrong on the picture, but he must have gone back to be killed and buried in Holland. Almost need to have the records to figure this out.

 

Many thanks for your reply. Agree that I need the records, and will try to find them, but time is short as uncle and auntie are nearly ninety and not at all well, so want to get this to the printer ASAP. Just getting to the snapshots, after all the genealogy and portrait phots, and noted the discrepancy between the unit at death and the date on the photo. Would like to know where he fell, too.

 

Hello,

My aunt is sending me more information that I should receive soon. First, I revisited the sites that show shoulder patches, and found one for "Anti-Aircraft Artillery Command Patch" that has two red capital letter "A"s inside a white circle that is surrounded by a dark blue border. I also found two different patches for the Third Army, one of which I had thought could be the right one, as it was not a white letter "A" on a dark background but rather a dark green "A" on a light green background, and it is this second choice I thought could match the photo. However, I used a borrowed Jeweler's loupe and find that there appears to possibly be a letter next to the "A" on the shoulder patch in my photo, and unless this is due to the fold in the sleeve, this may be the above mentioned Anti Aircraft patch instead of the Third Army. Also, the patch in the photo definitely shows a white or very light background. I did find a website re the U.S. 2nd Armored Division, that states the Armored's core unites included the 41st Armored Infantry Regiment, as well as others. Then Colonel George S. Patton was in charge of training the 2nd Armored Division in 1940 and later that year, Patton, now a brigadier General was put in command. The division landed at Gela in Sicily, 1943, and landed in Normandy, June 9, 1944, eventually racing across France with the rest of the Third Army. It did see action at the Battle of the Bulge, and then drove on across the Rhine on 27 March. On 11 April it was halted on the Elbe on orders. My uncle's cousin had died on 4 April.

Will await further information re that date on the photo, and if you have any information on a possible identification of that shoulder patch I'd greatly appreciate it. The photo, of course, is in black and white, but red photographs black, so the letter/s "A" would be dark, and they are.

Thanks again.

 

More, as I received yet another photo showing Fred Osier standing in front of a sign that says "Battery-D" in large letters, but he is standing in front of most of the rest, with "9th" and a drawing of a galleon and the letters "C.A.", possibly preceded by another letter or number, and a third lind with is unreadable. Fred is guarding and standing next to a prisoner on one of the islands off Boston, apparently used as a military prison. According to my aunt, Fred volunteered to fight in Europe, which explains why he was home in spring or summer of 1944. He is not dressed in cold weather uniform in the Battery-D photo, so must have shipped out shortly after this, ending up in Europe with Patton's army.

Can anyone here tell me more about "Battery-D", as there was an Artillery Post on Little Hog Island in Hingham Bay off the town of Hull, MA, that became a AAA post around 1951.

Many thanks,

Claudia

 

Hi Claudia,

I did a quick search and in case you no one has been to the cemetery in Margraten, here is a link to a site with some photos World War II Margraten Holland/Netherlands American Military Cemetery and Memorial @ 5 Star

American Battle Monuments Commission
Name Rank Serial No. Date of Death Cemetery
OSIER FREDERICK E TEC5 31085988 4-Apr-45 NE

http://www.abmc.gov/search/detailwwnew.php

Frederick E. Osier

Technician Fifth Class, U.S. Army

Service # 31085988

41st Infantry Battalion, 2nd Armored Division

Entered the Service from: Massachusetts
Died: 4-Apr-45
Buried at: Plot C Row 11 Grave 6
Netherlands American Cemetery
Margraten, Netherlands Awards: Purple Heart

Having his service number should help with getting his records. Please look at the Genealogy portion of the Forum. At the top there are "stickies" of threads with information on how to get records. Please also look at the information on the American Battlefield Monuments site, as they may also have leads for you. The information here should also clarify with whom he was serving at the time of his death. I hope this helps in breaking down your genealogical "brick wall." (I'm also a genealogist!)

 

41st Armored Infantry Regiment

.: History of the 2nd Armored Division | Hell On Wheels :.

2nd Armored Division

Not specific to 2nd, but does mention Operation Grenade http://carl.army.mil/download/csipubs/fromroer/from_cii.pdf

The Battle of Germany

"On April 1, 1945, the U.S. Ninth and First Armies took Lippstadt. This caused the Ruhr to be surrounded. The Germans fought on, but under Field Marshal Walter Model's orders, the troops surrendered. The Allies took about 400,000 prisoners. On April 21, 1945, Field Marshal Model killed himself because he was ashamed the he didn't follow Hitler's orders. The Ruhr was taken, and so was Hitler's supplies.


Meanwhile, Lieutenant General Jacob L. Dever ordered his Sixth Army Group to push into Germany from the east. Mannheim was captured by the U.S. Seventh Army on March 29th, and Nuremberg was taken on April 20th, and Munich on April 30th. The French First Army took Karlsruhe on April 9th, Stuttgart on April 21st, and Friedrichshafen on April 30th. The French crossed into Austria.
The U.S. Ninth and First Armies took Kassel on April 4th, and Hanover on April 10th. By April 15th, the U.S. First Army took Halle and Leipzig. The 2nd Armored Division of the Ninth Army established a bridgehead at the Elbe River, and were close to Magdeburg. Montgomery's Twenty-first Army Group went into Holland in the north. The Canadian First Army also went into Holland and took Ijsselmeer on April 18th, 1945. On April 8th, Bremen was taken by the British Second Army. On May 2nd, Lubeck was also taken. "

 

Hi, Michelle!

Many, many thanks for all of that! Very helpful to obtain his service number (Ancestry,com did not give this piece of information in his record). We genealogists are true detectives, aren't we??? (We do love the chase.) After having done all the immediate family history I kept the juices flowing by doing some of the "by married" relatives. Used to volunteer a lot on line, but there is so much out there now that requests are rare. A memorial to Fred Osier and all the veterans of Gloucester is still there and known as "Fred Osier's Corner".

Thanks again!!!

Claudia

 

Mrs. Claudia, Ahh, the fog is lifting. Thanks to macrust's great information it's possible to solve some questions. The Antiaircraft Command's shoulder insigna (patch) looks a great deal like the Third Army. It's round and has differernt colored circles. The AA Command patch has a white center with two red A's (the 3rd has a blue center with a single white A) both colors are red, white and blue and would be easy to confuse unless held side by side. The AA Command in the U.S was located in Virginia and was downsized as America became stronger and stronger as the war progressed. By 1944 most of the personnel were transferred overseas. As far as the 2nd Armored, this was Pattons own and only Division. He trained them in the states before the war.
When they invaded N. Africa, Patton was promoted to I Corp. Commander. He was still in charge of the 2nd. but the Divisional general was then Gen. Crittenberger and then Gen Gaffey. After the Sicily Campaign Patton was in a bit of trouble with Eisenhower and left without a command--the 2nd went to England to train for the invasion. In June, 1944, in France, Patton was given command of the 3rd Army while the 2nd AD was assigned to the 1st Army commanded by General Hodge. When Mr. Osier was killed on April 5th, the 2nd was assigned to the 9th Army under General Simpson and fighting in Germany near a place named Hamelin on the Weser River. To finish what I started to say, the 41st Armored Infantry Bn. with the 2nd AD had nothing to do with Patton after leaving Sicily. It's such a shame to lose anybody in the war, but the war ended in May of 1945, so he was within a month of seeing the war end. (my brother was a tank commander with the 2nd AD from N.Africa to Berlin where he was assigned during the occupation, so this thread was sort of personal.)

 

Hi,

Thank you!!! That nails down a some very important points. I can see why this would be personal for you, and I am happy for you and your family that your brother survived. Guess my aunt can stop blaming Patton's supposed "recklessness" for Fred's death. I came across a web site that has a first-hand account of what it was like to serve under Patton, and it praised Patton highly for his respect for and care of the men under his command. I was hoping to add an excerpt from this, but if Fred was not serving under Patton in April of 1945, I'll not include it, unfortunately. This is the excerpt: "As I look back at the time in the Third Army under the command of George Patton, I think with gratitude that he cared about us, and did all he could to preserve us, and respected us, and didn't lie to us, and inspired us to victory. That's what it was like to work for George S. Patton." - Appendix I, "George S. Patton Was My Leader, When We Were Young", program for the Fort Clark Springs Historical Society, author not indicated.

Again, thank you!

Claudia

 

Hi,

Many thanks for that! An apt quote, and one I can use. Do you have the cite for the audio?

This is a wonderful forum!!! You are all so helpful and I am more than grateful.

Blessings,

Claudia

 

Here is the video of Patton's speech discussed above:
YouTube - Patton-speech.avi

 

Listener, Thank you for the link to Patton's speech. I've read many times about Patton's unmanly high pitch voice. One author wrote his tough manners was a facade to cover up the feeling of inferiority because of his voice. That's the first time I actually heard it--didn't sound too feminine, only very emotional. His talks with the troops, like the one at the beginning of the movie "Patton", was meant to install fighting spirit but caused some serious consequences in Sicily because of the way the men interpreted how to handle prisoners.

 

This is the thesis of historian/biographer Stanley P. Hirshson in the opening pages of his book General Patton: A Soldier's Life (New York: HarperCollins. 2002; PB, Perennial, 2003). Hirshson hits the reader right off the bat with this argument. As a result, many Patton admirers hated this book, because it began as a condemnation of Patton. In fact, the biography is very well written, and it is obvious in many places throughout the book, that the author really admires Patton. The author spends considerable space on Patton's romance and early marriage years to his wife Beatrice, culling from many love letters the couple exchanged. In the chapter devoted to Sicily, the author delves into the "massacre at Biscari airfield" where Italian and German prisoners were shot by members of the 180th Infantry, 45th Division. The author consults testomonies of the trial, where one officer stated he was reminded of Patton's speech when the general stated that Germans should be killed whereever found. This was only one testimony. My father witnessed a similar speech delivered by Patton in February 1944 in Northern Ireland, and as far as I know there were no "massacres" committed that was said to be inspired by Patton's words after D-Day. My point is that the pro-Patton school should not judge Hirshson's biography too harshly based on this association to a massacre, for as a whole, the book is quite good and balanced.

Greg C.