Stalin left Moscow in October-November 1941?

The news of the evacuation of the government shook the people of Moscow.( October 16, 1941
The USSR evacuates its seat of government to Kuibyshev)Psychologically, this was a moment of supreme danger. The decision of any government to leave its capital in the middle of a war tends to sap the moral strength of a fighting nation.

The evacuation of the government from Moscow was followed by riots and disorders. People thought that the city had been given up. Crowds stormed food stores. Members of the party destroyed their membership cards and badges. Anti-communists prepared to settle accounts with Communists and to win favor with the invader. Symptoms of anarchy appeared in many places.

The news that Stalin had not left with the rest of his government affected the mood of the people in Moscow, who saw in it evidence that the will to victory, personified in Stalin, was unshaken.

If Stalin had left Moscow, would it have made the Russian defence crumble? Was Stalin´s personality one of the key factors in saving Russia in 1941?



[ 11. January 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Kai-Petri ]

 

I believe that Moscow would have fallen if Stalin had left. How demoralizing (spelling check) would it have been for the Moscow population if their leader just fled. It would of given the Russian people the impression that the city wasn't worth fighting for. Because if Stalin had left it would have fuelled the people to believe that there was no hope.

 

Moscow wasn't left by Stalin. Period. Was the U.S.A. "weak" on 9-11 just because GWB wasn't in Wash. D.C. on that day? No.

´Cheers,

 

I don't think it is the same Andy W. If there were foreign troops surrounding Washington DC and Bush would have fled, then it would be the same.

Immagine that you are fighting to protect your capital from invaders in 1941 around Moscow. And then suddenly you hear that the big boss, Stalin, has left the city.

I think you would think twice to fight, because Stalin already left the building. I would conclude that he doestn't care about the city and also not about the people living in it.

 

I think that Moscow would likely have fallen, however I don't think that the soviet Union would have collapsed. Germany would have taken Moscow, scored some great propoganda, maybe even have had pictures of Hitler touring the City like he did Paris, however the Russians would have recaptured the city in it's winter counter attack, possibly even capturing a german army in the process. Hitler would not have allowed withdraw from the City once it was his. We'd probably see an army trapped and annihilated similar to the 6th army at Stalingrad.

Stalin might be assasinated in a coup d etat though, maybe Molotov or Beria would take over then.

 

WOW!!! Almost 6 years to the day!!!!

 

Don't complain too loudly here bud, at least the "search function" must have been used!

 

Are you sure Clint? LOL. There aren't that many pages of this stuff to go through LOL

 

If the rot set in very quickly i can see Moscow being overrun within days and all those Soviet Red Army troops and all their equipment falling into German hands and on top of that it would still take months to fully get the second capital up and running.

But the knock on effect especially west of the River Volga would be devistating I believe Leningrad would fall almost immediatlely and that the Axis push in the south would overwhelm the Soviets and on top of that many of the folk would certainly turn on Stalin and the whole Communist system.

Militarily i also believe that with a public show of cowardice by Stalin i belive that daily desertions of those in the Soviet Red Army would be astronomical, a cancer would soon ensue and again how can Stalin giving up Moscow in an act of astronomical cowardice then issue orders to not take one step back after he slinked off to the relative safety of the second capital.

In the end his cowardice would in my opinion would spell the end of the Soviet Union.

v.R

 

Better late then never?

Or maybe not. lol

 

Moscow would be lost! Stalin was kinda a people's hero! He was like a God during his leadership. You will don't bielive, but that's true. If he would left Moscow, that would destroy the moral of soviet people very much and they would lost Moscow.

 

I am abashed at your insulting absolute lack of confidence on the staying power of the Soviet Peoples. The Soviet Union was not Stalin only, and even if he left Moscow, he would keep leading the Union from somewhere else.

I find your post both ignorant and provocative.

 

Stalin made all decisions. All country belongs to him, during the war. During his leadership he became a national leader and hero, after his death millions of people don't wanted to bielive that he died! If he would left Moscow, he would betray all soviet people, they would lost their moral very much. I doubt that there would be a general which would so strong as Stalin. Stalin made great job during the Moscow battle, he made parade at 7 November of 1941 year, when fascists was near Moscow and bombarded it by their artllery. This heaved up a spirit of people very much. Stalin compelled peace people to build defensive posistions. And etc and etc. If not Stalin, Moscow would be lost, I'm sure. Plus, soviet veterans of world war 2 also think so.

 

Actually, no. Stalin ended up relinquishing military control to more capable hands like Zukhov. One of the few good decisions he ever made...




Cheers...

 

Nope. Your wrong. He was people's commisar of defensive, he made all main decisions and plans. Ofcourse, not alone, with the help of military generals and etc, but anyway he made all main dicisions. And he made great job during Moscow battle. You underestimate great comrade Stalin.

 

I am only sorry that he is seen by anyone as a "great comrade". He was of import in WW2 of course, but to think of this man as "great" only reflects a recent "re-education" in the former Soviet Union. The cult of personality (which even Nikita K. renounced) is alive and well it appears.

 

He really is a Soviet Man.

 

Important factor missing here. The condition of the German army. By the time German units arrived within view of Moscow, they were utterly exhausted. Plus, The Russians had their counteroffense already planned. Even if Stalin left 'just in case', the Germans were so weak that they could not take it and if they did, they could not hold it.

 

Exactly, whatever force the Heer could muster it would be unable to go much further as those men were rushed way to far anyway. Typhoon required better supply lines; the Eurussian landscape did not agree.

But if the Germans made a steady advance with supplies and oil the prospect of taking red square was quite real as there was around 4-5 red army divisions there and groups of factory workers and so on.