Okay prepare for a long rant! In my class it seems to be like no one gives a care about World War 2 at all. I mean no one even knows about key battles or other details or knows them but with the wrong sides or facts mixed up its sad! Then when ever a WW2 video game comes out no one gives a care! No interest shown, yet they swarm over Left 4 Dead or Halo To top it off, the people at my school say stuff like ''oh WW2 games are boring or oh that is lame" Meh, or when we study it in history everyone groans and says its boring and just texts or sleeps, there are quite a few of my friends in class and lunch that are interested but thats it really. Its just sad really, not too mention all the hardcore video gamers say there was no advanced weapons in it and think it was like ancient warfare or something. sigh... Never read a book I am guessing. Anyone else have times like these? Seems like the teachers just breeze out of the subject and spend no decent time on it all the teachers seem to care about is just to prepare us for MCAS or finals
People are stupid and society didn't do enough to stop the lines from blurring causing many misconceptions to form about the war. I don't think the incident you described is very widespread, it might depend on school, location, etc. On the games side of things, developers haven't done enough to show how advanced, chaotic, and brutal, the war really was. Eventually someone might do this and perhaps things might change. Although Call of Duty: World at War sold over 11 million units and is still one of the most played games on Xbox Live. Before it was released people said it would fail since it was World War 2 but it did on par if not better in some areas as Call of Duty 4 did! Long before Left 4 Dead there were cases of millions of soldiers running West to escape from the hordes of Russians, it got to a point where some soldiers became delirious and were confident that for every Russian they shot down another would step in his place. No one wanted to be trapped in "Ivan's Noose" because they realized the gulags meant certain death. The end of this video is very powerful but it was taken after a pretty horrific battle so you've been warned. YouTube - Хроника ВОВ разгром немчуры под КурÑком When it comes to books, Band of Brothers, The Forgotten Soldier, etc should be mandatory reading. Guy Sajer would benefit from the royalties to continue his campaign of fighting for the rights of the good Germans, the Ambrose Estate and the veterans who contributed for the book would also benefit. Plenty of war films should be mandatory as well. Here in Canada (at least, Alberta does) up until the end of high school in the November/December time frame social studies, history, etc classes are devoted almost entirely to the two World Wars and a few of the conflicts that came before (Boer for instance). I think it wouldn't be far of a stretch to say that both World Wars are the only subjects taught from "start to finish" here. If you feel in your specific condition that such things are occurring, talk to your local education board, principal, etc. Maybe you guys can work something out? Edit: Oh, and nice Conker reference.
thanks man great explanation society sure can be stupid at times it seems... Not sure I could change ideas within the school board anyways though too small of a person
Greg, That is nothing new. My wife is one year younger than me and shehas absolutely no memories of the Vietnam War, even though she was 11 when Saigon surrendered. It was just something that was not made important to her by those around her. I, on the other hand, well remember the seige of Khe Sahn and I was not quite 5 when that affair started. It was important to my parents and by extension, became important to me. In 1986, I worked in a pharmacy and for a college class I took an unscientific poll of my co-workers. All but 3 out of 15 were above the age of accountablility during Vietnam and this was 11 years after the fall of South Vietnam. Only two knew which side we fought on during the war and those same two knew the capitals of North and South Vietnam. Incidentally, both were men and both were on the hot seat to go to Vietnam, had they not been students. The most defining moment of the nation in their lifetimes at that point and most of my co-workers did not even know the basic facts about it. And they could vote.
Hi there! I sort of felt the same way when I was younger, but keep in mind, everybody has his or her own interest. For example I am also interested in coins, particularly in early 19th century US coins - one might took a look at some of them and find them to be not interesting, but - it was the most interesting for me. For me, it was about the history of American money For example there was at one (1860s) time a 3 cent coin issued. The reason was because at that time in American history, it costed 3 cents to mail a letter. For some of us, we might not care about a 3 cent piece, but for others, that is the most interesting thing in the world. Back then 3 cents was worth a lot of money and really, and besides I think it's just down right strange that there was ever a 3 cent piece (until I found out that was the postage cost at that time - and was like ah ha!) Same can be said about history. I enjoy it greatly, and am delighted to read online stories and articles. But not everyone cares for history. Some are interested in cars, boats, etc. A friend of mine is interested in soccer to the nth degree; whenever I meet him I try my best to be interested when he goes about telling me this and that about soccer, but to be honest I am more interested in WW2 history and religion. Everyone has to find his or her place in life. Some are fascinated in astronomy and NASA. Some people find those big Saturn One and Two rockets fascinating and build beautiful scale models of them. Other people build scale models of the Arizona or Yamato or New Jersey (I still need to build Bismarck!) As for young people, they are going to be young people, they are going to concerate on Victoria Secret and Harry Potter, and Twilight. You mentioned video games - I think there are a lot of young people fascinated by WW2 video games, when I go to BB you see a whole litnany of WW2 games. Mostly they are ETO related games, but you do see several PTO games as well. And video/computer games generate huge interest in WW2. When I first started playing stategy games, I became utterly fascinated with the German armor fighting vehicles and went out and bought books on them. I would guess that there are more than a few young people such as I who were drawn into WW2 history this way. And no I have never played Halo. I just can't stand Sci-Fi weapons. They seem so fake. I preffer the MG 34 and 42. Nothing seemed to compare to my first comptuter game experiences with the MG42 - I was like When's the last time you went to a major book store and saw a beautiful girl reading Anthony Beevor's Stalingrad or George Prauge's At Dawn We Slept? It never happens. Further more, and I don't mean that in a mean or derogatory way, but be we have to be honest - WW2 is something of a male fascination. Unless of course you are a USO volunteer/worker - or you were an Army/Navy RN or had a relative who serverd in the war, chances are females just don't go for the Second World War books. Thinking off the top of my head, I can only think of Iris Chang as the only female author that you see often in the WW2 section of a book store. Other than her, it's all men. Which makes me sad. It would be nice if more women were interested in military history, but unfourtenately that is not the case. But instead we see them reading Twilight - which I must admit I cannot bring myself to be interested in reading - however for some people it completely absorbs them and fascinates them. And when ever I meet someone interested in them, I try to be appreciative of the things that interest them. Also, I beleive that ultimately as we grow older, slowly history becomes more and more important to us as we age. We realize that we are mortal and soon find ourselves looking into the past in order to understand our future and place in history.
Thank you for the wise words both of you thats pretty sad how they didnt know the factions in the Vietnam War Slipdigit and cats and cradles yeah its true all people have differant interests, yeah my girlfriend was bored to pieces with All Quiet on the Western Front, but I liked it alot, very good book. Yeah no sci fi gun is good as a good ol' MG-42!
I have to concur with what you wrote. Vietnam is a poorly taught subject in our schools. Sometimes it's just frightening what people do not know. To be fair though, I don't know anything about sports - particulalry college foot ball and basketball. Whenever people start talking about college basketball or football, I sort of keep quiet and then try to look interested.
Great post gregc. My opinion? I think that it is mainly due to the time we are living in. With two Wars currently in progress that is where the main interest will be. And I can't argue with that. As far as I can tell, where your interest lies hinges on your age to a certain degree. I grew up with a TV show called "Combat" which in today's World would equate to "Band of Brothers". We "played" 'combat' which usually had us either fighting the Germans or North Koreans. Korea was still not that far in the distant past and Vietnam was in the near future. Also a large reason for the interest in WWII is we are rapidly losing the Soldiers that fought that War and want to Honor their sacrifices. Tom Brokaw coined the phase "The Greatest Generation" referring to the WWII era and I'd like to coin another. A few years ago I attended a Welcome Home reception for a local National Guard Unit that had just returned from Iraq. I realized then that I was sitting among "This Generation's Greatest". So no matter where the interest lies the main point is to have the interest and Never Forget!
Unfortunately, as time passes, the number of those who experience events first hand decreases. Those who follow often have their own experiences imprinted in their minds. That which came before is relegated to some background image. World War 1 certainly was a "defining moment" in the live of people in the early 20th Century, but who among the general public can give chapter and verse about its genesis, its battles, or its conclusions? Possibly, some of our more knowledgeable Rogues could because of its connections to WW2. We can cast blame at poor schools, uninterested students, or political malaise; the reality is that the events of the past, as they become more distant, become increasingly irrelevant to the everyday existence of most people. It is no one's fault. There are few enough who have an interest in history, and I suspect this has always been true. Even those who lived it weren't much interested in it, witness the lack of discussion by many WW2 vets who never talked about what it meant to them (my own father included). It is enough that YOU are interested. It is people like you (and us) who have taken on the charge of remembering. I'm guessing the same is true for other "defining" moments from the past. Sic transit gloria mundi.
Vietnam in my opinion is something people are trying to sweep under the carpet, even here in Canada the government is refusing to acknowledge their official involvements in the war. (they made and tested the agent family of chemicals among other things), on a unofficial level, the US army allowed Canadians who wanted to fight in Vietnam to go with them, I think nearly 50, 000 people had gone, today those people are essentially forgotten about, they petition yearly to the Canadian government to be included in the Remembrance Day ceremonies. No monuments either, the soldiers who went were largely Native American so the monuments are on reserves and largely unkept. Civilian populations in Eastern Canada who lived in the areas the government decided to drop chemicals on have been asking for compensation as well, I think the government is waiting for most of them to die before they payout, you know, it makes things cheaper and makes the government look like the "good guy", just ask the internment victims. You won't see a pretty girl reading a war book because they just don't make them like they used to, the publishing push they receive is no where near the scale of say a Twilight or Harry Potter. Although it would be cool to see how one does if it did get that kind of push! Something I like to do is carry books with me that I've already read but have cool or controversial covers, pull one out in a crowded bus or train, pretend like you're reading it, get asked questions, and you might walk away having educated a few people. The TV show made Band of Brothers sell really well, had it received a better push I'm sure it could have appealed to a larger audience as well. Unless the rumors of the cancellation are true, I suspect The Forgotten Soldier might receive a similar push with the movie. It only takes 1 person to start a revolution, look at all the revolutions that took place in the last 100 years, they were mostly Communist but that's besides the point, it only took a single person to start things. Also, your girlfriend was bored by All Quiet on the Western Front? What didn't she like about it? Try showing her the movie?
Greg, I feel the same way that you do. I've felt this way about people most of my life, and its amazing how little people care about history. What annoys me even more is when people try to blame all of the bad things in history on America or things like that (AKA generalize without any thorough knowledge of the subject).
Well said Lou, my thoughts and feelings as well... Great thread gregc Plan on plenty of response here... all the best, Jem
Hi all !! I guess i was one of the very few lucky kids ..., In high school i had the most worderful history teacher that through his excitement of history not only wwII but all periods made history come " ALIVE " , you might walk into his class and see him dressed as general Patton,and speaking in the language and mannor of the time and would not refer nor acknowledge anything or question past 1945 ....,that was in 1975... To this day I cant get enough history...ESP. wwII . Where has all the passion gone in teaching ?, and sadly enough even most of the guys i work with that are about my same age do not know who ; F.D.R. or Winston Churchill ; was .... and I just say to them "do they not teach history down here anymore . Best Regards Tablesaw
We had a substitute teacher in high school that was a WWII vet, fought in Europe. He was subbing in our wood shop class one day and he told us a story of a firefight that he was on. Details as if it happened the day before, he remembered names, places, details, it was an hour long story. Never before or after that day did he say so much as 2 words in class. He just sat at the front and read his paper and let us run wild.
Hello Slipdigit ! Yes Sir , very much so !! he was a very unique man and yes his style and approach to teaching was appreciated by his students and by his colleages . I am sure that the spark he put into history will never be forgotten by any student of his . Very best Reguards Tablesaw
An interest in any area of History is usually driven by the interest of teachers and family members - particularly parents. If they were interested, there is a chance that their children were exposed to it. If they have great enthusiasm and knowledge and the ability to express it, then there is a chance it will be picked up by the children. It is the same for World War II. For many, it also comes down to relevance. When someone has the ability to connect pieces of history with the present, then they see the relevance in learning about the past. For most on this Forum, they are able to see where various actions led to actions in World War II, and where we are still feeling the impact of policies and activities which occurred during the War. I will disagree with the comment about women not being interested in World War II. I think there are many who are interested, not only those who have relatives who participated. The overall gender bias that has generally been directed at them over time tends to influence the number who overtly express an interest, or who sustain an interest. I've noticed that as a woman interested in World War II (daughter of a Canadian Veteran) and who usually takes a book on the subject with me when I travel or am waiting for appointments, I've had more women ask me about what I'm reading than men and who often then start a discussion on the topic. Interestingly, two of those have actually been my 20-something hairdressers who are passionate about WWII movies and are relatively knowledgeable and who want to know more. Veterans Affairs Canada has a school program in which local Veterans are asked to participate in class discussions to bring relevancy to students. Now that WWII Veterans are fewer, and the number of those able or willing to speak are becoming less, the interviews filmed and recorded are also used to give a more personal experience to students. It is really an individual's ability to feel empathy about an experience they have not personally had that makes something like history a topic for which they can develop an interest or a passion. Perhaps the fact that so many of our young people are desensitized to violence and concern for others is something that as parents and as a society we need to question. Perhaps it is the lack of interest in the past and in the world around them (beyond celebrities and consumables) that told us that too many of our teachers were unable to ignite passion to learn and care. More importantly, that parents and society lost track of the values that hopefully keep us from repeating past mistakes. I still have hope - because as long as there are young people who do care about the sacrifices others made on their behalf, they will be able to teach others in their turn. PS Sorry if this got a little rambling in reply!
Michelle, Your response brings a certain balance to this forum... thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings. In my new found endeavor in the business world, I am making a point to honor and recognize war veterans who have embraced duty, honor, & country... reawakening past events in a relevant way to our current generation can be done. My target market is inclined to those in their early teens/late 20's... being a parent and an appreciative U.S. citizen, I find the past and those that gave their today for the future superlative! I will find ways to honor them all the best, Jem
