Lancaster PB265 FOUND !!!

Just found this on a french site...
Google Image Result for http://www.cometeline.org/D087%20crew.jpg

Was Sgt Gordon an Australian???
Robert T. GORDON / R181524
Naissance/D�c�s : le 08 mai 1922 � Adelaide, Southern Australia / le 21 juin 2004
Adresse : Australie

 

Given that the same site says PB265 was a DeHavilland Mosquito I would be leery of thinking that Sgt Gordon was an Aussie. Chorley's 1944 losses has him as RCAF and the number given is certainly an RCAF service number.

In the end, it's not unheard of, for someone born in Australia to have served in the RCAF. Plenty of Aussies served in the RAF so this isn't that great a stretch.

An email to the site might reveal their source for this statement, not to mention a reminder to them that PB265 wasn't a Mossie

 

It would still be interesting to check this out, after all one mistake about the Mossie could be a file error (the previous filled in one was a mossie and they possibly forgot to change the reference) , but here they have a whole bunch of details, including feed back from 2004 , so I doubt they would invent this. As alieneyes says, it might be worth to send them an email.

 

cheers guys, will do. Would the 2004 reference be the date of his death?

 

Thanks to 82nd TRAX for this, a letter from Sgt RT GORDON from the Sarvis crew...

August 31
Dear Mrs. Sarvis:
“It was not until last week that I knew Bob was missing. Until that time, I had been in a hospital in Southern England, and had no news concerning the rest of the crew. Since then, I have seen most of the others, and can tell you what happened, partly from what I have learned from the other chaps.
“We were over the interior of France when we were hit. The aircraft was very badly damaged, and immediately went into a dive. While Bob was trying to regain control of the plane, he gave the order to abandon the aircraft. The engineer, who was closest to the escape hatch, jumped just before Bob was able to pull the plane out of the dive, and hold it on an even keel. As soon as he was able to do this, Bob told the rest of us to remain in the aircraft, and we altered course for the Allied lines in Normandy, hoping to get as near to them as possible before bailing out.
“By skill and sheer strength. Bob was able to keep us up until we reached Allied territory. He said there was no chance of making a safe landing, and told us to prepare to jump. After the bomb-aimer jumped. I went forward to the escape hatch to check the others out. I had barely reached there when the aircraft was hit a second time by an anti-aircraft shell, and the plane went into a dive. The sudden lurch threw me off my feet, and I fell through the hatch. After a few seconds of confusion, I found the ripcord on my parachute, pulled it, and dropped to earth safely.
“Before we had gone forward to jump, the bomb-aimer had assisted Bob to adjust the straps of his harness, and make every preparation to jump. Bob told us in detail what he intended to do after all of us had jumped – such as trimming the aircraft for level flight, and so on. The wireless operator jumped after me, and he was followed by the mid-upper gunner. They didn’t have much to tell about what happened after I left, except that Bob was alright, and ready to jump. They were at a good height at the time, and for that reason I had hopes that everyone had gotten out safely. That is the story of the experiences of the crew.
Bob was much more than skipper to the rest of us—or perhaps I mean that he was a captain in the finest sense of the word. With the good-humored perversity of a crew, the boys rarely let Bob know in words how much we all thought of him, but when we were flying together, we were able to show him in deed what his inspiration meant to us. For our various duties, the rest of us have only average abilities, but in response to Bob’s leadership, we were able to achieve better-than-average performance as a crew. This was realized not only by ourselves, but also by our friends in the squadron, and by the squadron commanders. I mention this so that when you receive the Distinguished Flying Cross that has been awarded Bob, you will know that the award was merited not only by this final gallant achievement, but just as much by the constant fine example he set for all of us.
“Jack Balfour, the engineer, who dropped behind enemy lines, has recently arrived safely in England. Tom Clark, the rear gunner, is still in a hospital under treatment for an injury he received when he jumped.
“For all of us, the realization that we owe our lives to Bob’s courage and endurance is final vindication of our faith in our skipper. This letter, written on behalf of the whole crew, is an inadequate expression of our feelings. But, though we realize that words are small comfort at this time, we want you to know that Bob’s friends over here are hoping and praying with you.
Very sincerely,
Roy Gordon”

 

this a very moving letter and a great hommage to Mr Sarvis.

 

I am just glad to be able to pass the info on to simon.

 

found a few more photos of the excavations in 1990, courtesy of 3945 Magazine and La Presse De Manche (1989). One photo of a section of the fuselage I think features the original side markings UL.

 

Heres the latest on my search...

Received from the 'Old Wings' in Normandy "He also thinks that all the medium and large pieces have been recovered from the ground.
He also mentioned that some parts of the plane appears in the selling by the french public domain to some scrap merchant (1948), whose names are M. Roger Lamache de Montebourg that apparently purchased the remainings of the wreckage and also a so called 'ME109 G6' who was on the other side of the road!!"

...................and this !!!

"He also has been informed by his uncle (that apparently leaves nearby the crash site!) that 5 young people (3 Dutchman and 2 English) have been arrested by the police in the area 3 years ago as they were wandering with a metal detector in this area that is 'restrected/protected'!!!"

So, the plot thickens. It looks like I will be in Normandy in late July to follow all of this up and to see the existing remains of Lancaster PB265 at St Mere En Eglise Airborne Museum and Le Bouget, Paris. Hopefully I will be able to find more pieces of the wreckage, however it looks more and more unlikely. Will try and find the scrap dealers site and have a look around, but I doubt it is still there.

 

Interesting to hear that foreign tourists got busted while trying to find some of the remains. I doubt they would have found anything at the excavation site anyway.

the Me-109 would be an intesting lead, apparently it was a victim of the Normandy Battle, as G6 models were for mid 1944

 

yip will pursue that line of enquiry! Any idea of the identity of this plane? The location is the other side of the road leading from Carquebut and Liesville, Manche in Normandy.The ME109 must then have come down between Mid 1944 and 1945...Yet another mystery!

 

Turns out that this lead was a red herring! The body of RJ Sarvis was NOT visible under the water, still in the cockpit.So as far as Im aware, most of his remains still lie in that lonely 'field of the clods' near Liesville.

 

Well at least a large part of the remains of RJ Sarvis was found during the exacavation in the 1990s. French Gendarmes were called to confirm the find, so there has to be a report from these men too. There are pictures as well. I can ask Mr Pierre if he has any. Unfortunately his friend, Mr Renaud, who was a great help in this case is deceased now .

 

Sorry to hear about Mr Renaud. I thought that all that was found of the remains was a shin bone?
The gendarmes were no help at all, as there was no-one working there now who remembers the excavation. The Sarvis MACR only gives the note 'additional remains found'. Hopefully Mr Pierre knows more! Can you ask him for the windows that was mentioned before? Im hoping to get to Normandy next month.

 

I will ask him and let you know. He does not live in Normandy though but south of Paris.

 

To whom it may concern...my name is James F. Ring and am a nephew of Robert J. Sarvis. My mother was Uncle Bob's sister Charlotte Jean Sarvis Ring (deceased).He has two surviving half sisters.Iam amazed what I have discovered on this website.My mother loved her brother more than you will ever know...her first born son was named after him. Hetoo is deceased and I am putting together a project to give to his son on this upcoming Father's Day...I want to keep the next generation informed that this Freedom does not come without a price...I would greatly appreciate any and all information, photos, etc that anyone could forward to me...cell no. 706-248-4523....address: 1246 Old Ila Road...Hull, Georgia...30646...thank oh so muchfor this info

 

James F. Ring - welcome to the Forum. Yet again, for the umpteenth time, this forum and its remarkable collection of experts has reconnected descendents with their ancestors history. Yet again I am in tears.

FYI: There is additional information about this crew and PB265 on this forum at the thread at http://www.ww2f.com/military-servic...earch/36145-sgt-jm-weir-576-squadron-raf.html

 

Hi James, I will forward your message to my friends . Glad you enjoyed this thread.

 

Hi James, I am Simon Weir, Grandson of Sgt Jack Weir, Bomb Aimer in Bob's crew. I am so delighted to hear from you ! please email me on : dapperproductions@ yahoo.co.uk
Regards

Simon View attachment 13310

 

The early hours of July 25th saw three separate raids: common during this period in order to disperse the Luftwaffe NightFighter forces.
27 Bomber Command aircraft were lost in total. Lost Bombers - World War II Lost Bombers
Les Butler's Luftwaffe Records lists 18 claims for both the day and night raids for the 25th, only one being a heavy bomber (Lancaster LM178 which crashed a long way south of where it had been attacked.) http://don-caldwell.we.bs/claims/tonywood.htm

The largest raid, with 614 aircraft, was against Stuttgart in very dark, cloudy conditions.
A group split off from the main force to bomb an oil depot at Donges, 300 Km to the north.
112 Bombers were detailed to go after the V-1 Site at Ferfay south east of Dover.

Stuttgart was heavily defended by Anti-Aircraft guns, many of which were positioned in the surrounding hills.
The local terrain also made the city particularly difficult for Pathfinder marking.
Stuttgart had an extensive and very well engineered network of civilian bomb shelters which is credited with the fact that so few civilian casualties occurred during this succession of raids between July 25 and July 29.
(Only 900 fatalities were recorded during these raids last week of July.) (Noting Bomber Commands intention was to create another FireStorm.)
The city was of lesser strategic importance which explains why it had been comparatively spared versus surrounding cities in the Rhur. The targets were its many major factories and municipal and cultural buildings.

Stuttgart was bombed many, many times throughout the war by both the RAF and USAAF, yet in total "only" 4,590 people were killed by the air attacks including the successful firestorm on the night of Sept 12th 1944. One must give credit to the tremendous work done by the city planners.

On the final raid: which was planned in spite of bright cloudless moonlight on July 29th, the Luftwaffe night fighters intercepted the outward-bound bomber stream over France accounting for most of the 39 bombers claimed of the 61 total lost on the two raids (Hamburg and Stuttgart) that night.

FYI only:
94 Lancasters and 6 Mosquitos including http://www.467463raafsquadrons.com/ attacked an airfield and a nearby signals facility at St. Cyr by daylight on the 25th escorted by 12 Squadrons of Spitfires. Losses to Luftwaffe fighters included one Lancaster and eight Spitfires. These should not be confused with the RAF night losses above. Many of the aircraft (and crews) had just returned from the night operations above.
- large numbers of fighters were being stationed or refueled in the invasion zone by this time.
(Anyone who thinks that Paris would be a "milk run" by this period should note that they suffered near 100% Flak damage on this raid. Paris being liberated Aug 25th 1944.)