http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/real-americans-please-stand-up/ This article by D. Cavett on the uproar of the construction of an Islamic center/mosque at ground zero stirs up personal sentiments that have yet to settle into a formed thought. The flimsy safety of accepting no position is tempting but delusional since it means by definition the repudiation of another. Let me say, I'm still weighing a stance (fence-standing). That, too, is a position (not one of which I am altogether proud). I'm very interested in reactions to this piece.
Sadly some politicians have taken a religious freedom issue, and turned it into a "hate" issue in an attempt to create a "wedge" issue in the public mind. Much as Gingrich kept up the pressure on President Clinton in an impeachment attempt over a BJ, while he himself was involved in adultery. A bit hypocritical to say the least. This is a political issue, since there was a mosque at least as near to "ground zero" as this one is expected to be, and it was there before the Twin Towers went up. There are strip clubs (GOP's favorite "small business"), and Muslim food stands all over the place. A community center with a gym, swimming pool, and a small section set aside for Muslim worship ceremonies isn't a "mosque". Might I point out this rather apropos editorial cartoon I ran across the other day? This is NO WAY to treat our constitution.
That's one thing I am settled on. That it is, in fact, less a "religious issue," than one of politics, pure and simple (not that the two are mutually exclusive, which in this instance, I posit they are not). And I'm not saying yea or nay to either side, at this point. Just that when I read the reference in the article mentioned about the brothers, sons and fathers who gave the ultimate on those beaches long ago, I think of the principles and ideas for which they lay down there lives and I think those principles are either worth honoring today and tomorrow, without footnotes, or they are not. It's not so much a question of religion as it is how you define and understand those haughty ideas which inspire and continue to inspire men and women to defend them with their lives. That's all.
Here is a part of an article by Michael Hughes which struck home on this subject. In similar fashion as Voltaire (and Mel Brooks) deconstructed the false notion of the Holy Roman Empire -- positing that it was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire -- one could dismantle the misnomer of the "Ground Zero Mosque," for it is neither a mosque nor is it located at ground zero. The American public's oppugnancy to the erection of said mosque (which is technically a community center -- not that it matters really) two blocks away from the site where the Twin Towers once stood only serves to reinforce the worst fears of Muslims around the globe -- which is a shame because obstructing such an endeavor couldn't be more un-American. And trying to defeat hate with more hate has historically been a counterproductive strategy. Meanwhile, the United States is in the midst of a war and ideological struggle against the Taliban in Afghanistan, and this absurd and vociferous opposition to the Islamic development project in New York City is a PR nightmare for the ISAF and is certainly not helping our troops, especially when political leaders parallel Islam with the Third Reich, such as Newt Gingrich who said: "Nazis don't have the right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust Museum in Washington." (bold mine) "…The xenophobic disrespect Americans have shown for another monotheistic world religion is completely unwarranted and inappropriate -- there would be less outrage if an atheist bath house for sadomasochists were put in its place (an establishment that would likely be patronized by many who doth protest). And if this moronic open dissent is ultimately successful, I may start a movement to have Christian churches shut down within the vicinity of where the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building once stood. See: Michael Hughes: Ground Zero Mosque: American Intolerance on Full Display for Muslim World
Can't remember where I saw it but one person's reaction was this (paraphrased) "To be honest...we've been building ground zeros near Iraqi mosques since 2003."
I hate how people keep comparing it to the Nazis or Japanese building memorials etc. The War on Terror -the 9/11 attacks- were a RELIGIOUS attack, not a NATIONAL attack. IE. It wasn't a country (like Iraq) flying into the towers, it was Religious Fanatics waging so called Holy War on the West. Thats why I am opposed to the Mosque being built there. They know exactly what they're doing too - wanting to build it in such a sensitive area - that its like rubbing salt into a wound. I understand that not all Muslims support the actions of Terrorists, but there is fundamentally something wrong with a lot of Muslim Fanatics who resort to violence at the first opportunity. I also find it ironic that the US is 'backing' that Imam (forget his name) - past history shows that whenever we back some one for one cause, they end up turning against us in the end (Hello Osama Bin Laden anyone?). Kinda funny that no one has brought that up yet.
The Imam which Mussolini referred to is the same one which "W" picked to head his interfaith conferences. He is probably the most moderate, conservative Muslim ever on record. You want to see some "tight ties" to the bin Laudins, check out the Bush family tree. I am amazed that we Americans, seemingly willing to fight to the death to defend our Constitution, will ignore it if it runs contrary to our personal wishes. Sort of a case of "love the concept, hate the details". But our Constitution isn’t really like a chinese menu, you can’t pick and choose which parts you like and which parts turn your stomach. If we have religious freedom, we do. Simple as that. There was a mosque at the site before the twin towers existed, and this ISN"T a mosque, it is a community center with a small upper section set aside for religious worship. Like the one in the Pentagon. There will be no "call to prayer" like at a mosque, it is going inot the old Burlington Coat Factory warehouse that has been (like most of the area) abandoned and unimproved since 9/11. If you don’t like a part of our Constitution, there is a process to change it and it has been in place since it was ratified. And the first ten were part of a compromise to get the rest of it through the process of ratification. Looking back, it hasn’t been amended all that much, only seventeen more times since 1795, and at least two of them canceled each other out (18th & 21st). As an example the early seventies ERA (Equal Rights Amendment) couldn’t get past by the required number of states to get ratified, and women out-live, out-number, and out-vote men historically. Why females wouldn’t support an amendment that put them on "equal footing" with males still leaves me shaking my head. If you want to apply local zoning laws to halt a construction project, you can, but one shouldn't get all insulted if the right to worship and build a place of worship (which isn't the main purpose) is excercised. An article by Will Durst got me thinking this way, don’t blame me for an original thought here.
I honestly don't care anymore. Put it there, don't put it there, whatever. I'm sick of hearing about it! It's for the New Yorker's to decide, and they already have. Its facinating in one way, because you have two parts of the first amendment going at each other. Its American values at its best if you think about it. I'm a little bit to the right in politics, but even I don't think this should even be a topic going into November. We have bigger problems. But, as long as you have Gingrich and Palin on one end, and Obama and Pelosi on the other, all opening their big yaps about it, we'll never get rid of this.
This country has been on a persecution of religous freedom for the past 20 years now. If you look at American history, this nation was great when it had spiritual morals as its foundation. The declining economic strength can be linked to a decline in morality. Greed took over and it was everyone for themselves. This nation will never be in a position of economic and social strength as long as it remains on this path of greed. I do not care what anyone says, this nation WAS founded on christian principles and it stood strong and lasted because of this foundation. That foundation is now cracked and falling apart, not because of other religions or attacks from those religions. It is because of the very, very few who fight religion as a whole. The more morality is taken out of our society, the more gloomy the state of our nation becomes. I have been acquainted with people of the muslim faith and have never encountered any kind of descrimination or attempts at conversion. I have seen it more from so called christians. Zealots are the ones who attacked us on 9/11. There are christians zealots as well. Do they speak or represent me............NO! So, this Muslim Community Center should be allowed to be built. We need to reposition ourselves in the lead again and show the world that a diverse country can be successful. Right now we are showing the world the failure of the United States. I may be alone in this line of thinking and I find myself ashamed at being an American (not that I ever considered myself one) but I refuse to support such a state. I refuse to, if I was of age, to defend such a nation. I will stick to my thinking, do what I consider to be right, take advantage of the freedoms that I helped to defend, and voice my disgruntlement with the current state of our nation. I will fight to keep the ten commandments in public display just as much as to defend the right for a Muslim 'Mosque' to be built.
By the way, please keep this thread civil!!! This is an emotional issue. I feel bad because I started a thread a month ago on this very topic, and a moderator had to shut it down because of rogues insulting one another.
Either way you look at it, its certainly not an issue that the President of the USA should be weighing in on. You'd think he'd have more important things to think about. I'm not going to address the 'Christian Morality' either as that is certainly taking things off topic (and into dangerous waters). I'm not quite sure about their being Mosques in the area before the Twin Towers, but the better thing to do - given the public outcry etc - is to change the location of the planned building. Call it what you will, but a place of prayer is still a Mosque. If anyone had any sense, they'd move it to another part of town where there isn't such an outcry over it. People aren't opposed to its construction - just its location.
It is as much a "mosque" as a YMCA with a Chapel is a "church". Not much. And the area was lauded by Fox News when it was first announced as a great idea for improvement in the area. And it wasn't considered Hallowed Ground then was it. Even closer than the old Burlington Coat Factory building is a strip club called the New York Dolls gentleman's club, an off-track betting parlor and smaller mosque that's been there for four decades (slightly longer than the twin towers had tenants), the older mosque that has been there for four decades is the Masjid Manhattan. The New York Daily News recently tallied all the businesses within a three-block area of the World Trade Center site. Result; 17 pizza shops, 18 bank branches, 11 bars, 10 shoe stores and 17 salons where a girl can get her "lady parts groomed." It isn’t a "mosque" anyway, since here are what the plans call for; a 13-story, $100 million multi-use facility that's modeled after the city's popular 92nd Street "Y". It would house a pool, a gymnasium, a 500-seat auditorium for public events, a Sept. 11 memorial, and a separate prayer space on the upper floors.
