Gun Identification

I have a Picture of my grandpa holding a gun. I was curious as to what kind of gun it is? On his discharge under qualification it says Marksman Carbine. Is the gun he's holding a Carbine?





I am also interested in info on the gun in these pictures. As some of you may know I recently bought an album of Picture from Attu. These 2 Are my favorites out of the bunch. Sadly I don't know who the person is.

 

the first is an M1 Garand Semi-Automatic rifle

M1 Garand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the second is a Thompson sub-machine gun, I believe an M1 or M1A1

Thompson submachine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(neither to be confused with the M1 carbine - have to love the naming process you guys have)
M1 carbine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Awesome, thank you!

I just watched a show on the Military Channel about the top 10 combat rifles and it got me curious. I've watched enough Gangster movies I should have recognized the Thompson its just missing the drum magazine. :lol:

 

IIRC once it became the M1 instead of the M1928 you could no longer use the drum mag, only the box ones.

Edit and I'm pretty sure now it's an M1 Thompson not an M1A1

 

It's an M1 Thompson. Externally, the only quick way tell the difference between an M1 / M1A1 is the rear sight ; 'L'-shaped on the M1, hooded ('ramp-shaped' ) on the M1A1.

 

M1 as martin stated josh..M1 receivers were made from April to October 1942..

 

Spartanroller FYI, the first production issue of most weapons from that period usually was "M-1." That's why they are referred to as M-1 Carbine, M-1 Garand, M-1/M-1A1 Thompson, M-1A1 Flamethrower, etc. They used to be numbered and named by the year they were introduced and by the manufacturer, ie, M-1903A3 Springfield, M-1911 Colt, M-1941 Johnson Rifle, M-1918 BAR, etc.

Not really sure why it was done like that though. Maybe Carl can shed some light on the matter when he gets back.

 

Pfc. William F. Doty firing a Thompson in a forest near the Siegfried Line in Germany in World War II. (U.S. Army)
Thompson Submachine Gun Cal. .45 M1
This gun was produced by Auto-Ordnance at Bridgeport, Connecticut, and by Savage at Utica, New York. Army procurement records indicate Auto-Ordnance produced 847,991 guns while Savage produced 539,143. Savage subsequently produced a total of approximately 1,250,000 Thompsons prior to and during World War II. It is reported that Auto-Ordnance total production was slightly over 200,000. Serial numbers of Auto-Ordnance manufacture are preceded by "AO." The Savage productions has the letter "S" preceding serial numbers.
All production guns were fed by a 20-round box magazines although those adapted prior to the M1 series could use 50-round drum magazines.
The Thompson was most popular among specialized troops such as Rangers, Marine Raiders, armored and parachute units. It became somewhat of a status symbol and was eagerly sought after. Even today many veterans consider it the best weapon of WWII.
Although the Thompson had many good attributes and enjoyed a good reputation, it did have drawbacks. One of the most frequent "gripes" was its weight.. more than 10 pounds, heavier than the M1 Garand. As most submachine guns, it was difficult for the average GI to control in full auto fire. Some commanders said it wasn't any good beyond 50 yards. It, like other submachine guns, lacked penetrating power.
As for General Thompson, he was never to see the overwhelming success of his gun as a military weapon. He died in 1940 at the age of 80 years, but he left his mark on the history of military weapons.

 

Thanks everyone!

I requested his medals. Along with the medals there gonna send a replacement qualification badge with Carbine Bar. However my grandma has the original. It has 2 bars, Rifle and Bayonet. What gun was used to receive the Rifle Bar on a qualification badge?

 

most likely the M1 Garand for him, although could be the M1903 Springfield (also any number of oddities that were around at the start of the war in training units, but less likely)

 

The M-1 Garand was the standard "service" rifle begining in 1936, so anything marked "rifle" is going to refer to the M1 Garand.

 

Ok Thanks, I'm gonna put all 3 bars on the original badge for the display. Along with 3 Medals/Ribbons, 3 Patches, 2 DUI Pins, Honorable discharge pin, and his collar discs.

 

seems correct;

couldn't find absolute info but from photos and inference from lists it seems the order should be rifle first, then carbine then bayonet. Which seems logical. The one in the photo attached has grenade out of the order given by wiki, not sure if that means either is wrong.

from wiki;

interestingly there is one for AA-Artillery - I guess he didn't qualify for this as a loader?

 

I have seen the AA Artillery bar. I also saw a Coast Artillery Bar and was curious why he didn't have either. Maybe there just for the gunners?

 

certainly would have to be a marksman on the weapon - not sure if everyone would have a chance to try out for it or if was just a gunners thing. IIRC one of the links i found before said that all crew members were trained to fire the guns.

 

That's correct the loader position was pretty much an "apprentice" position. Depending on the gun I think there were two loaders, one designated an assitant who actually fetched the rounds while the other actually loaded the gun. An assistant gunner, who helped manipulate the gun and directed the loading and the Gunner. There was also a Fire director who was in charge of a section of guns.

 

Your right about the 2 loaders.

The part about him being familiar with all jobs incidental to firing of 40mm gun. Does that mean he learned to fire the gun but never passed the test? or did he not have a choice about being an Ammunition Handler?

 

Every man on a crew served weapon learns every other member's job in case someone gets incapacitated you know. And just like entry level jobs everywhere, the most menial and physically harder job has the lowest pay, and in the Army's case, the lowest rank. I'm not sure of the level of importance of different jobs on an artillery piece, but there is a pecking order there somewhere. Soon a gunbunny will show up and straighten us out on that.

For example, I was on an M-60 LMG (light machine gun) team when I was in the Army, which was made up of three team members. I was the gunner (corporal), which was an E-3 to E-4 slot, the a-gunner (assistant gunner) was an E-2 to E-3 slot, and the ammo bearer was an E-1 to E-2 slot. That set up was on paper only. Most of the time I was the whole team. Seldom was there an a-gunner, and I never had an ammo bearer.

 

check this document - has a lot of the requirements and test descriptions etc. It suggests that because extra pay was involved, if he was qualified he would definitely have it on his record. Also;

Marksmanship in the U.S. Army: a ... - Google Books

It's quite a confusing subject

hope this helps clear it up

 

I kinda feel like I'm stuttering, I have said it so many times. But I can't resist, Thank you so much everyone for all your help!

I totally understand them needing to learn each others jobs. If they didn't taking out one crewman could incapacitate a whole gun crew. I cant speak 100% cause he never talked about it. But I'm pretty sure my grandfather never intended to be a career military man. So he most likely just went through all the basics. And didn't feel the need to go through the process of ranking up. In fact I'm not even sure if he would have went to war, if he wasn't drafted. That doesn't change, how proud of him I am for fighting for his country. I understand that in the big picture a gunner has no power without ammunition.