whats the difference between sherman tank gun and panther tank gun?

the sherman tank and panther tank have different tank guns though they both have 75 mm tank guns shermans low veleocity and panther has a high veleocity

 

31 calibers in length?.....

 

In a simplistic evaluation the main gun on a Pzkw V was high velocity gun developed as primarily a tank killing weapon. Most Sherman's had a more general purpose weapon designed to be usefull in infantry support, bunker busting and still have some tank killing ability. In a one on one encounter the Panther had the better gun, but then it was rare for the Panther to get a one on one encounter.

 

Definitely important to remember that the Sherman was fielded with many guns in its history; part of its greatness. It did carry the 75 through most of the war, a gun with a very good HE round, but it was also fielded by the US with a higher velocity 76mm and a 105mm howitzer. The British did some shoe horn work to put their very potent 17 pdr. in the Sherman, which was a very good high velocity gun. The 76mm had very good tank killing capability and with the right ammunition some very good tank killing capability. That ammo was, unfortunately, not available in numbers to the Sherman crews.

The Panther gun was a very good gun with very good, long range armor penetrating ability. Not a gun with breakthrough fighting in mind. When comparing the Panther and Sherman in tank v. tank duels the Panther excels due to its thick frontal armor and long range capability of its gun but when the Sherman is able to close the distance its comparatively weaker gun can penetrate the Panther's side armor at typical combat ranges. Studies done showed that in combat involving Panthers and Shermans the Allied tank came out on top more often.

 

But this would not happen on a one to one basis which makes the Panther better. Only way the Sherman came out on top was when the Panther was overwhelmed by numbers or in close quarters such as the bocage or urban surroundings, correct?

 

Just a thought which gun on the Sherman are we talking about and I take the Sherman's combat range not the Panthers

 

Not usually. The reason it came out on top generally was the US had far better communications and coordination of their armor than the Germans had. A major cause of this is that the Sherman was more reliable and generally available in fair numbers meaning that unlike many German panzer battalions, Allied ones were usually near full stength and could operate as a unit rather than as disjointed platoons and companies the way German ones often had to.
What this means is that even in more open country the Allied armored units often outmaneuvered on a more operational scale their German opponets to place themselves in good positions for offense or defense and more often than not got the first round in. That is usually a critical factor in winning armored battles.

 

I would say that in a one to one encounter over 500m that the Panther would come out tops against the Sherman armed with the standard 75mm M3 Gun, I know that the 75mm M3 was a more dual purpose weapon and the 75mmL/70 was a more potent Tank killer, but the Germans had the 75mmL/46 mounted on various other AFVs and maybe that was more of a dual purpose gun like the 75mm M3 ?.
Just one more thing was the 75mm M2 and M3 derived from the French 75mm mle 1897 gun, the Americans used them early in the was as a anti-tank gun and a SPG on the M3 GMC.

 

As far as I know the studies would have been done with all engagements factored. It would be a pretty lousy study if they ignored some engagements. Zaloga points out that the engagements were usually won by the tank getting off the first shot so I don't think the numbers issue is the deciding criteria. Considering that the Panther had poorer visibility than the Sherman the Sherman has an edge to start. I think it is a common misconception that swarms of Shermans were killing off single Panthers and Tigers. (Let's remember that tank engagements were not like a gunfight on a street in the old west with two tanks facing each other and taking shots at each other until one was dead.)

 

Don't want to cause arguments but could you answer my question please, That then gives me something to go on

 

I don't think this is directed at me but I've been discussing the 75mm while pointing out that it was fielded with other guns.

 

Its simple really the Panther 75 was a tank killer while the Shermans was more of a infantry support(be mindful the american tank doctorine didnt call for shermans to engage armor it was suppose to be support by tank destroyers)

 

Sherman 75mm M61 AP round muzzle velocity of 2,030 fps.

Panther 75mm, APCBC round, muzzle velocity 3,030 fps,
APCR round, muzzle velocity 3,670 fps.

tom

 

Just some stats I have just dug up,
75mm M3, 73mm @ 500m @ 30°.
76mm M1A1, 104mm @ 500m @ 30°.

 

I totally agree with Mark4 there is really no comparison between the two vehicles

Inresponce to you Yan

Panther 75mm

Penertration of armor plate @ 30 degrees from vertical

Distance.................. 100m.... 500m ....1000m.. 1500m ..2000m
Panzergranate 39/42.. 138mm.. 124mm.. 111mm ..99mm.. 89mm
Panzergranate 40/42.. 194mm ..174mm ..149mm.. 127mm..106mm

Panzergranate 39/42 (APCBC)
Panzergranate 39/42 (APCR)

 

Thanks Darren I was needing a few stats on the 75mmL/70.
On the what Mark4 said about the Sherman being a infantry support tank, and using tank destroyers for tank to tank use, what was the Sherman 105mm used for, was this AFV used in the infantry support role leaving the 75mm Shermans for tank to tank use ?, I not sure but did every Sherman tank platoon have two 105mm Shermans at HQ level.

 

The Sherman 105 was effectivly an assult gun and or mobile artillery piece. I think wiki has a page on them that isn't too bad if not google will turn up a fair amount of info.

 

The Sherman Jumbo armed with a 75mm (some had 76mm) could have survived better then the normal M4, if its frontal armour was facing the enemy, but it battle you just dont know were the next round is coming from, I think the British using the Firefly (one to every troop) gave the Brits the edge, and even later with the Comet, did the Americans use the standard Sherman M4 (75mm) in Korea ?, I wonder how they faired when they met the North Korean T-34s.

 

I believe the remaining Shermans were of the 76 (W) variety by the Korean war period, with Pershings also in the mix. BTW, they faired very well actually.