Starship Troopers, fascist or not?

In order Yes and No. The book portrayed a society where the "right" to vote was tied to the "responsibility" to contribute to the common good. I would think antithetical to Fascism. The movie while it didn't come right out with it certainly had hints that way and seemed to do so in a ways both subtle and not so subtle. I think it even laid the blame on starting the war on Earth rather than the bugs.

 

I didn't take it to be fascist. More of an authoritarian style.

 

I wish I would have gotten to this before my 2nd Bloody Mary. I always thought that both, movie and book, were an indictment of manifest destiny and the perils of not engendering indemic species and people. Of course there is a nod to colonialisation and and exploitation.

An interesting comparison could be made of : The Time Machine, Journey to the Center of the Earth, LOTR, Starship Troopers and Avatar as they all skirt the same issues; but, reflect the times in which they were written.

 

I read the book many years ago, bought the Avalon Hiii board game a good 25 years ago, and of course saw the film. I enjoyed each but for differing reasons. The book was classic era Science Fiction. The game allowed me to splatter bugs to my hearts content. The film was simple escapist fun. The book was a serious attempt to explore a 'Utopian Society' in the classic style. A society that worked as it should, fairly. But of course not everyones idea of perfect. I believe the film wanted to straddle the positions of yes this could work, but let me show you how it could slip into something dark with great ease. The producers wanted a action film with a heavy wow factor, the director, Verhoven (sp), wanted to slip in his own fears for such a system.

 

I liked both the book and the movie, but didn't try to read too much into them. I enjoyed them for the pure sci-fi aspects....the book moreso than the movie. Seriously....get better actors! And having them all happy and forgetting that they've both just seen their lovers killed in nasty horrible ways right before their eyes, and yet seem to forget about it 10 minutes later? Riiiiiight. The book was better.

 

Facist? No. Oligarchical, yes. Heinline's values outlined in the book such as having to serve to vote, are far more in line with the Roman empire than with facism. Basically, society is ruled by an elite oligarchy that is formed from veterans and select others who have political power. In order to access the full benefits of society you have to fulfill certain requirements such as military service.
In a facist society service is not necessarily required and the ruling elite is chosen on the basis of their political stability and loyality to the head of state. Service is often forced as is membership in certain orgainzations. There is no voluntary association here as in Starship Troopers.

 

I was referring to the book.

The movie did make them out to be fascists

 

I loved that book, less the movie, the huge difference in tactics from the book where the power suits made the MI hugely superior in a one on one fight clashed with my "suspension of disbelief" and spoiled it for me (the human mind works in misterious ways ).

I found neither book nor film fascist, they certainly show no big belief in "one man one vote" but there is no closed "party" but rather a power group with access to anyone provided they served in the military, IMO that makes a big difference as it makes the ruling group "open" to anyone. IIRC the book shows that the main character's parents openly disapprove of the military without any consequences, also very different from the way fascist regimes treat the opposition.
As a way of limiting the vote to people who know the cost of political decisions it resembles most oligarchies rather than fascism. IIRC the book was the last of Heinlein's juvenile novels, the publisher found it too "dark" for a juvenile and refused it.
If you like the subject, and have an open mind, try also reading Joe Haldeman's the forever war and Jerry Pournelle's The Jannissares, all 3 are very good reads, they tell basically the same story, and they could not be more different!!
BTW two were written by veterans (one was wounded in Nam and the other a pre WW2 volunteer) and the third by a brilliant psycologist that never saw combat.
The movie uses too much "fascist simbology" to think it's not deliberate, but it's ambiguous, looks more like a warning than a glorification, it doesn't really go in any depth about how the political system works.

I never played the AH game, missed that one.

 

They killed off his parents in the movie, too, whereas in the book, at the end, he meets his Dad in a spaceport while waiting for the transport to his next command. The son is a lieutenant, and the dad a private, yet they still find time to sit down and talk as father and son. Again, not very fascist, reaching across rank/class barriers like that.

 

After Histoy, Science Fiction is my greatest passion, with the occasional turn to fantasy. A recurring theme in Sci-Fi/Fantasy is the perfect world concept. The imagining of a world or society that works on a differing level than our that in some manner solves the problems seen in our own society. In Fantasy you either have the lone warrior who lives in a world where everything is wonderfull so long as you are powerfull enough to protect whats yours or take what you want. The teenagers dream world.

The other end of the spectrum was the 'Great King' who was wise and just. He or she made all the laws, provided for the welfare of the people and gave out justice without bias. This can be seen in everything from King Auther to Lord of the Rings.

Sci-Fi being a more modern concept tends to embrace a more complex political system rather than a 'one great leader' idea. To be fair, Sci-Fi does love the all knowing computer as head of state.

To bring this back to the subject at hand, Starship Troopers envisions a society where power is given only to those people who take an active part in the defence and welfare of that scociety. This world view resonates with veterans who joined of thier own free will. People who choose not to serve scociety is some productive manner can live peacefully and profitably, but have to keep thier mouths shut when it comes to the politcs and direction of the state.

In the US today we see faint echoes of such a debate. Does a illeagal alien couple earn citizenship for having given birth to a child on US soil? Should you have to present a valid state/federal ID to vote in an election? Should all government documents and forms be in english? What exactly is it to be a citizen of the US. The one thing I think we can agree on is that not everyone agrees what the answers to these questions are.

The concept of Federal Service for the right to influence the body politic has some appeal to me, despite the fact as someone who never wore a uniform I would be excluded. The fact that the pothead down the road has as much say in how the country is run irks me no end. Had I lived in such a society I suspect I would have accepted 'Federal Service' to earn the privledges that it offered.

The thing is that all governments are run by people, who are in turn flawed creatures. Sooner or later Heinlein's scociety would eventualy fail as those who held power would tire of the carping of those who do not, or would force them to serve whether they liked it or not.

It has been far too many years since I have read Starship Troopers and my memory may be flawed, but I got the impression that the author mearly stated this is the scociety and it works, now lets go kill some bugs. The film director tried to show that such a political concept had very real risks, but did so in a very subtle manner.

Like all media, books, songs and poems, the audience can take what they want from it.

 

Y'all are too deep. If fascism means I can shower with Denise Richards and the other women troops, sign me up. I think this is what OP was driving at anyway...

 

That was one fantastic book.

 

In the early 1970's, when I saw Star Trek in syndication, I became a fan of the genre. To that end, the subsequent Star Wars (1977) and Close Encounters (1978) were eye popping. Movies that followed-Star Wars and Star Trek sequels as well as 2010 were great movies-they set the bar high for what a sci-fi movie should. To that end, Starship Troopers was a huge let down.

 

I agree that it was not meant to be a political manifesto, I mearly point out that within scifi in general the 'perfect' society is often explored, and usually found wanting in some manner. As pointed out above this was a young adult novel so it simply offered up the 'Federal Service' concept as a given, then preceeded with the bug killin. Verhoven took it a step further with the uniforms and the links/commercials/news reports to offer a mild commentary on the political system. Frankly I am not sure what heinlien intended, be simply an action/adventure novel, or a call to view responcability to scociety in a different manner to the times.