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Could the bin Laden Raid Have Revealed a Secret New Helicopter?

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by Dauntless, May 4, 2011.

  1. Dauntless

    Dauntless Member

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    A picture of the tail rotor of the chopper that the Navy Seals' Team Six detonated revealed unfamiliar features. Reports say it could be a new, secret helicopter.


    When the Team Six members reached Osama bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad one of the choppers made a "controlled but hard landing," according to reports, probably due to higher than expected temperatures.
    Temperatures affects the density of the air, and low density makes it harder for the rotor to sustain the weight of the chopper, especially if it was near its maximum weight (being packed with soldiers and fuel to fly in from Afghanistan). Abbottabad is about 1200 meters above the sea level, and altitude also affects air density. (Inside the Osama bin Laden Strike: How America Got Its Man.)
    So what machine exactly experienced the hard landing described above? Short answer: we don't know for sure. Long answer: It seems that the tail rotor visible in the picture belongs to a highly modified version of the H-60, the chopper of choice of the special forces for more than 30 years. Aviation Week doesn't beat around the bush, claiming: "A previously undisclosed, classified stealth helicopter apparently was part of the U.S. task force that killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan on May 1."
    Stealth technology on helicopters is not itself new, but the fact that a previously unknown machine was used in this raid is yet another proof of the degree of importance that this mission had for U.S. commanders. (Watch President Obama's announcement of Osama bin Laden's death.)
    Aviation Week then goes techie and explains what we can see from that picture: "Photos disseminated via the European PressPhoto agency and attributed to an anonymous stringer show that the helicopter’s tail features stealth-configured shapes on the boom and the tail rotor hub fairings, swept stabilizers and a 'dishpan' cover over a five-or-six-blade tail rotor. It has a silver-loaded infrared suppression finish similar to that seen on V-22s."
    Low radar visibility was essential, for the Pakistani air force would have either scrambled its jets if an unknown threat to its airspace (and near the country's best military academy!) was detected, or fired its surface to air missiles. It's possibly more proof of the fact that Pakistan really knew nothing about the mission - or at least its first wave of attack - until it ended. (See pictures of Osama bin Laden.)
    This would explain why the Seals wasted critically precious time to blew up the mysterious helicopter and why many experts had problems identifying its remains. It's unclear what Pakistan could have made of the downed chopper, but growing ties between Pakistani and Chinese armed forces could have made the destruction of such new machine a must. China and Pakistan, over the past two decades, have developed a multi role combat aircraft called JF-17 and an advanced trainer, the JL-8.
    The Navy Seals usually fly in the famed Sikorsky UH-60, popularized by the movie Black Hawk Down, in which two UH-60 were shot down in Somalia, resulting in the death of 18 men.
    Black Hawk Down was a scenario, insiders say, that together with first attempt to rescue the hostages held at the U.S. embassy in 1980 in Iran, that's been evoked constantly in the planning phases leading to the May 1 raid, as examples of potentially disastrous outcomes. (Via Aviation Week)
     
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  2. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Nice bit Dauntless.
     
  3. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Excellent. Thanks for your efforts.
     
  4. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    I personally doubt the stealth chopper angle...they certainly would have been modified...armour, dampeners, infra red suppression etc....but a new stealth chopper?? The fact that it has tail rotors at all suggests against this...redirecting the jet flow through the tail is a far quieter method...Also i doubt the US would put such an asset into enemy territory on such a mission. The controlled but hard landing is perfectly in keeping with this sort of mission...you see plenty of controlled but heavy landings in Vietnam footage for the same reason...quick dissemination of troops.
     
  5. Dauntless

    Dauntless Member

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    The pictures I've seen of the tail section (all that survived) are vastly different than that of any chopper today. Because of the aerodynamics (or lack thereof) of choppers, certain things are a given-rotor noise-but modifications would make the chopper faster. Skin coatings may/may not affect radar visibility.

    In the mid 1960's, we found out about the SR-71 because LBJ was in a heated race with Goldwater (LBJ was in a mood to blab). Since then, politicians have spilled few advanced avionics secrets. For instance, although anecdotal evidence points to the Aurora project, nothing has ever been said or proven.
     
  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I have bee wondering about this ever since I saw the photos of the damaged tail section on CNN.
    It doesn't look like an Black Hawk tail section I have seen.

    Bodies, unusual wreckage photographed in bin Laden compound - CNN.com
    Tail section photos are #4 and #5.

    I am inclined to believe that it is either a new model or a very heavily modified Black Hawk.
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Well, reports coming out today all point to a heavily modified Black Hawk helicopter. Apparently the design has been in the works for a few years and getting Osama was it's first "public" mission. Perhaps now we will be able to see some photos of this new Black Hawk variant.
     
  8. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

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    The greatest part of "new" and "top secret" technology? By the time its "revealed" to the public, there's already something either well into the planning stages or on into the prototype/testing stages. New/TopSecret tech does nobody any good if its not used. Osama is one target where I'd be willing to scrape every piece of new tech out of the testing labs and throw it at him, whether it works or not. So, the question to me is, was this the date they were prepared to reveal the helicopter, or were they wanting to wait a little bit longer? Either way....it did its job (well, one did, anyway), the mission will be studied and analyzed for weeks/months/years to come, and any wrinkles will be ironed out. If it was still highly-classified, there would've been a very large effort made to destroy the tail piece, either at the time or by a "oopsy" stray drone mission. "Darn thing had the GPS installed upside-down, our bad, Pakistan!"

    Anyhoo, that's my two cents. Which, with today's economy, is worth exactly....squat.
     
  9. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    The "Nighthawk" (F-117) was flying for years before it was revealed operationally in Panama, it was needed and proved itself to be somewhat "needy" in a couple of areas when in real combat. However when it was used again in Gulf War I, it was an excellent vehicle.

    Who knows how many time (if ever) this version of the H-60 has been used, it never had a problem before that we know of. So there ya go.
     
  10. Dauntless

    Dauntless Member

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    I live near an airport that is often used for re-supply for life flight and military aircraft with maintenance issues. Looking closer at the pictures last night, I remembered seeing a helicopter with that kind of modification on it's tail rotor. I thought it odd, but I didn't ask any questions. It had come in during the night and it took off again just before 9 in the morning.

    Fully confessing though, I only stared at the tail rotor for a moment. What had drawn my attention was that it had an "Airwolf" type color scheme (black on top, white bottom). I wasn't there when it took off, I just saw it from a distance.
     
  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I'm willing to bet that if the helicopter had not crashed, and photos taken of the broken tail structure, we would not know of the "mystery" helicopter. It would just be some special ops Black Hawk, like those used in Mogadishu.

    The early reports were saying that it was a Black Hawk, and then the photos began circulating with the 5-bladed tail rotor(the fifth blade is visible, but most of it has been broken off) odd rotor hub, and odd tail structure.

    As an aside, an old friend of mine spent some years guarding the F-117s before we "officially" had them. The first few times the instructors from Fort Irwin paid a visit caused him quite some consternation. They were part of the OPFOR and were still wearing their Soviet uniforms.:D
     
  12. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    It does sounds like a "black ops" helo...being a carrier, its stealth is in insertion and extraction. My guess, after a little thought, is that the helo has been modified and possibly has had extra avionics or other hardware installed...The hardware too big or heavy to pull out of the craft so they destroyed the helo, the tail not being the classified part was left. Some possible proof of this would be that it didn't seem to take the heavy landing (have i got that right?). These helos are designed to take a heavy landing, but if it was carrying extra weight in the form of "new technology" (maybe a device to see through walls - a radar cloke - or a broadcasting device, designed to reverse the sound waves generated by the chopper, cancelling them out - as 3 guesses) The heavy landing may well have "broken" something, taking the crew by surprise...i still nay say the new stealth chopper idea...stealthised or made stealthier, but not new stealth. If my guess is right, its unlikey to ever be introduced to the public, because its a unofficial type or mach/mark.
    After the money spent on the defunct Cammanche and the huge amount of money on the Osprey...i would be very surprised to learn of a new stealth chopper.
     
  13. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Same for me, I doubt the U.S. would have risked to send new technology above this zone, knowing the Chinese would be too happy to buy whatever they could from the Pakistani. Also sending what could be described as prototype would be even harder to believe as it could have jepoardized the whole operation. I too believe this is a modified version of an existing copter.
    Also, Pakistan is supposed to be an ally. Obviously it isn't . I mean would the U.S. have had to destroy this copter if it had landed in a "real" allied country for a start?
     

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