1877 guns used against tanks

Fact or Fiction?

Here is the story: Winter 1941-Rokossovki calls Zhukov and requests more antitank guns for his 16[SUP]th[/SUP] army. He needs them for his defensive positions outside Yasnaya Polyana. Zhukov has none and Stalin calls on the instructors of Moscow’s Artillery Academy for help.

Within a couple of days a couple of batteries are ready foraction. The guns that are in use are from 1877, some from Russo-Turkish and some from Russo-Japanese wars. All of the guns were mothballed around Moscow’s armories.

Guns are used with some success.

To me this sounds like a story that never happened or got bigger with time.

Does anyone have any more information?

Thank you.

Here is a link, use Google translate.


Ïîä Ìîñêâîé âîåâàëè ïóøêè âðåìåí Ðóññêî-Òóðåöêîé âîéíû » Âîåííîå îáîçðåíèå

 

It doesn't seem so far-fetched to me. I know the Italians resorted to using some 1800s-vintage guns. For instance, the Cannone da 149/35 A (designed in 1900, but based on mid-1800s tactics and ballistics) was in service with the Italians in relatively large numbers (around 900) until the armistice. Given the dire situation that the Soviets were in, I can imagine these 1877 guns being put into action. I even think some WW1 British Mark IV tanks saw service with the Soviets. Although the webpage says they were used for in the Anti-Tank role, I have a feeling that they were quickly reverted to an anti-infantry, indirect fire role.

I'm not so sure about how "successful" these guns were, but generally something throwing chunks of metal at you going a few hundred feet per second is going to cause some damage, regardless of its age .

 

That looks to me, like a WW1 era artillary. Also notice the wheel does not sturdy enough for the weight of the
artillary piece. I would say the wheel looks like an 1877 wheel. But the piece itself looks more modern.

 

Yeah, I got the picture from the article link. I guess author could have just snapped a picture in military museum of just any old cannon.

 

double post

 

Plausable. The Italians were using 149mm guns built in 1895 through 1905 in North Africa for heavy artillery in some of their units.....

 

The Lee's M2 was basically the venerable 1897 75mm gun and the field mounted version was used successfully by both sides as AT gun, Bir Hakeim and the Pak 75/97 are some of the most notable cases. On the other hand IIRC the M1897 was the first field gun to have an efficient recoil mechanism so a 1877 carriage would be need resiting after each shot, not a good thing for AT work.

 

This gun is from Finnish Artillery Museum (Suomen tykistцmuseo) in Hameenlinna.
File:152mm m1877 190 pood gun 1.jpg - Wikimedia Commons
File:152mm m1877 190 pood gun 2.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

Regards,

P.S. 190 pood means the weight of the gun barrel- 190 Russian puds equal to about 3120 kg.

 

The French 120mm L Mle1878 De Bange, was also used in WW2.

 

BTW, speaking about anti-tank capabilities of such old guns I think that, despite their old age, they had some (although minimal) chances to succeed against not very heavily armored German light tanks, like Pz.II and Pz.38(t). Even if the shell was not able to pierce the armor, its impact force could damage the equipment inside the tank and inflict injuries to its crew, thus actually knocking this tank out of action for some time. Of course, chances of survival of such low-mobile guns were close to zero, but circumstances of 1941 made their use justified to certain extent.

Regards,

 

I think the problem with those weapons was hitting, no 1941 German tank is likely to survive a 155mm direct hit, but slow traverse, ROF, unsuitable sights, and lack of recoil systems make achieving a hit on a mobile tank a tough proposition. But if you bore sight the weapons on a chooke point or other likely spot and wait you will get some kills so that's probably the way they were used.